reply on: Lightning swaps *are* the connective tissue - btc++ Insider \ stacker news ~lightning

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102 sats \ 2 replies \ @optimism 15 Aug \ parent \ on: Lightning swaps *are* the connective tissue - btc++ Insider lightning

Well, in the examples here neither the payer nor the payee has a lightning channel. [..] As far as the mint user and the ark user, their trust models haven't changed

Haven't they? Afaik if it's not your lightning channel (or you are a co-signer on it) then it's not your coin, even if just for a second; i.e. custodial?

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 15 Aug

I would agree. I'm saying they were holding ecash tokens or ark vutxos to start and at the end they are holding ecash tokens or vutxos, not bitcoin.

So it doesn't seem like they are actually using lightning as a settlement layer. They are using it as a transport layer?

112 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 15 Aug

holding ecash tokens or ark vutxos to start and at the end they are holding ecash tokens or vutxos, not bitcoin.

I think that as long as we recognize the "not bitcoin" part, this is fine, and that's my primary point: if it's not on L1, it's not bitcoin. The nasty thing I will add, and I truly believe this: also not on LN (sorry). This means that settlement can only be on L1 (if you're a purist) and everything other than L1 is at best bitcoin * (1-<risk factor>).

They are using it as a transport layer?

Yes. Between unsettled bitcoin-derivatives.