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Easy self custody on Lightining is a solved issue yet it isn't?
246 sats \ 10 comments \ @snakedye 24 Dec 2022 bitcoin
Pheonix came out like 3 years ago, Breez around the same time. I'm sure we have new actual self custodial lightning wallets people can recommend below yet.. Each time someone ask for a wallet recommendation, someone recommends them a custodial wallet supposedly because
You can't expect beginners to run a full node.
when this has stopped being true for like 3 years. We all know that reason is nonsensical so I'd like to know what are actual reasons why today they should still be recommended without caveats.
Let's settle this matter once and for all.
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268 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 24 Dec 2022
Phoenix is a LN node, Breez is a LN node. Blixt is a LN node. OBW is a LN node. Electrum is a LN node.
All on your own mobile device. Non-custodial. Did you read my guides? https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lightning-wallets-comparison https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/getting-started-ln https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/obw-open-bitcoin-wallet https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/getting-started-with-blixt-mobile https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/recommendations-for-ln-users
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105 sats \ 0 replies \ @snakedye OP 24 Dec 2022
Thanks for the additional software recommendation.
What I'm actually addressing is your lightning wallet comparison article or rather the idea that beginner = custodial. In fact there's a lot of things I found wrong about that article that touch this topic but I'd rather stay focused.
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35 sats \ 0 replies \ @NorthKoreanHostage 24 Dec 2022
Phoenix wallet is non custodial lightning. You're welcome.
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10 sats \ 5 replies \ @gandlaf21 24 Dec 2022
Nothing wrong with a custodial wallet, if used for the right purpose
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @scottathan 24 Dec 2022
Yeah, they can be quite useful. Just need to use smaller amounts and be careful what you use it for. Still safer and more private than many fiat systems
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106 sats \ 3 replies \ @snakedye OP 24 Dec 2022
I'm not comparing custodial wallets with fiat. I'm comparing them to non custodial wallets.
It's like recommending a car and when I ask you why this car over that other car that's the same price, has better interior, drives better and uses less gas, you tell me that it's a better than a horse.
I'm not saying that these wallets are bad. I'm asking why we can't just recommend the better options. If you think they're the better options, fine but explain why.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @gandlaf21 25 Dec 2022
I think it's more like comparing a car with public transport. If i'm a drunk idiot, i would rather take the train than drive myself. Also, the price is not the same at all, if you want to be fully self custodial, then you NEED to run your own BTC node AND LN node, which has to be always online to monitor channels. That's expensive. Semi custodial wallets like phoenix are great, but they are not fully self custodial.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @snakedye OP 25 Dec 2022
If i'm a drunk idiot, i would rather take the train than drive myself.
If you're a drunk idiot, the best solution would be your sober friend giving you a lift.
You are creating a false dilemma where you either have to full on one way or another when there's something in the middle that's a good compromise.
Pheonix is as easy to use as any custodial wallet but you still hold the coins. What people usually want from custodial solutions is to be easy and what people want from a full node mostly is self custody. Pheonix gives you both.
For the same price, you get more. Why would you take a custodial solution over Pheonix or Breez or whatever other wallet of that kind?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @gandlaf21 25 Dec 2022
best solution would be your sober friend giving you a lift.
So you rely on someone else? that's also not self custody. The train analogy should represent that there is a cheap custodial service, that is available to everyone. It doesn't make cars obsolete, it's just a different value proposition.
You are creating a false dilemma where you either have to full on one way or another when there's something in the middle that's a good compromise.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but i think you refer to phoenix as the middle? If yes i agree on that.
Pheonix is as easy to use as any custodial wallet
That is not true, on phoenix you have to know about chanels and liquidity at least somewhat, whereas in a custodial solution it just works. Yes, it's still pretty easy, but it ia not the same UX at all!
Pheonix gives you both
That is also not true. Phoenix gives you something in the middle. You rely on phoenix (acinq) for opening chanels. You rely on their btc node. Yes i know you can set your own, but then we are getting into the price debate again. Running your own electrum server is not free. You also connect to their LN node with you chanel.
For the same price, you get more
I have to disagree again. For a different price, you get a different service. On phoenix you open your own channels. That comes with a fee. On custodial wallets you use the custodians existing chanels, which is cheaper. Sovereignty always comes with a tradeoff either in convenience or in price.
Why would you take a custodial solution over Pheonix or...
You don't have to take one over rthe other. you can use both! in fact, i do use both. They both have their usecase. That's my whole point.
Personally i'm a huge fan of Phoenix wallet, i think it's the best one for most usecases/people. But it doesn't mean custodial wallets are useless. They make different tradeoffs.
Bitcoin is all about tradeoffs. How much self sovereignty do you want?
all of it? run everything from btc core to ln node on your server at home. Tradeoff: more expensive and you need to know what you're doing
some? Use a semi custodial solution like phoenix. Tradeoff: rely on phoenix for swaps, channels & electrum server
none? Use a custodial solution. Tradeoff: chance of getting rugged and no privacy guarantee
All that being said: It's ok to use custodial wallets, for the right purpose. Saying that they are worse than other wallets is not true, they are different. They serve a different purpose. You shouldn't store your live savings in one of them, thats for sure. It shouldn't be on LN at all, it should be in cold storage. but that's another discussion.
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @Hermit 24 Dec 2022
It's pretty simple to me. You don't want to custody your wealth in Lightning. Lightning is like the physical wallet you take with you when you go out. If you loose it sucks, but not a big deal.
That said, lightning is 4 years old, by next decade, lightning nodes will be standard built in on routers. And we will be discussing here: Don't get a router with a node from Comcast! Buy your own router that has a Lightning Pi Board in it
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