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This podcast is referred to in a later, related post here on SN:
What Drives Bitcoin Fees? Using Segwit to Assess Bitcoin's Long-Run Sustainability | Bank of Canada #11280 https://www.bankofcanada.ca/2022/01/staff-working-paper-2022-2/ https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1491982763490168832
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-- The eposide page on the On The Brink website has some more details:
https://onthebrink-podcast.com/drivechains