While we are grumbling over other things, we might just loose Bitcoin!! \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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While we are grumbling over other things, we might just loose Bitcoin!!

1212 sats \ 15 comments \ @standard_sats 10h bitcoin

I was scrolling through Bitcoin X when I came across a post that drew my attention. I ran a quick online check, and multiple reports indicate a similar issue.

Global Bitcoin Nodes seem to be stalled in growth or just growing very slowly. Visible Bitcoin nodes count between 20 to 23k nodes, while a total estimate of active nodes (visible and private) is pegged around 45k to 50k. Assuming these are the correct figures, it is still a bit concerning that the rough ratio of Bitcoin nodes to Bitcoin users (read: Bitcoiners) across the globe is evidently low.

This is concerning, and the major issue is obviously the technicality and cost involved in running and managing a node.

But 50K is too small a number given what is at stake, and I'm sure there are over a million Bitcoiners across the globe, and we do not have at least 1/10 of that number in nodes up and running.

I equally haven't seen many discussions or emphasis around this topic.

Bitcoiners!!!!!!

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10 sats \ 6 replies \ @chovyfu 10h

blockchain too big to store.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @huw 3h

You can fit it on a £50 SSD, it’s not too big

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 9h

Bitcoin is ultimately reliant upon some altruism from participants. Similar to democracy... If the ratio of altruistic participants falls below a certain threshold the entire system becomes unstable and insecure.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @daolin 8h

I don't believe the node-runner is acting altruistically. The work he contributes without pay is only going towards other Bitcoiners, so he's not making a sacrifice to just anyone. The service he provides goes towards his own circle of chosen friends.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 8h

Many nodes are available to anyone who wants to use them therefore they are quite explicitly providing a service free of charge. The network would struggle to be functional if there were no node providers providing this free service to friends in some cases, and in many cases, anyone who wants access.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @daolin 8h

There's a lot more to altruism than just doing something for free. If I clean up someone else's trash at a park, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm asserting a moral obligation to sacrifice my entire life to keeping the park clean. The node runner voluntarily chooses to contribute work without monetary gain, mostly for the benefit of a network of which he himself is a member. It's not a sacrifice in the way democratic socialism asks us to throw away our whole lives for people we don't know.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 4h

I think it is rather similar actually.

Democracy may not be perfect but given that it gives all citizens a voice in governance and that good governance is crucial to the wealth of nations, its probably better than the alternatives.

Nodes operate along similar principles and although as in democracies most people are largely freeloaders, as long as there are enough nodes, the system functions as intended.

12 sats \ 0 replies \ @000w2 9h

If you just download bitcoin core, run it, connect a wallet, and use it to verify your own transactions, your node won't show up in these counts.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 10m

Why would there be fewer nodes when subsidy goes to zero?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @moptosh 6h

A new BIP to remunerate network nodes in Sats to thank them for their active participation in maintaining sovereignty

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @standard_sats OP 3h

This sounds like it. Just like lightning routing fees for lightning nodes, right?

I wonder if such a BIP is on the desk already.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @dgdhr335 8h

Is it really "too small" a number though?

You can have millions of people using bitcoin and potentially billions on the various other layers eventually...but does that necessarily require a large percentage of them running nodes?

Is the number really growing slowly or stalled?

Bitnodes.io has the number of nodes online being somewhat flat around 10,000 for several years before 2021 and then the growth has been reasonably steady in the ~4.5 years since. Now over 23,000 in over 100 countries. Seems fine enough from where I'm sitting.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @standard_sats OP 2h

I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what is at stake, really. Bitcoin's protocol security is dependent on how decentralized the network is, and much of the power of protocol decision-making lies with the nodes. Think of the nodes here like the U.S. Senate.

For a system that is rapidly and drastically becoming economically valuable, the number of decision makers (a.k.a nodes that protect the integrity of the network) seems really small, especially when weighed side by side with the number of people using that network and the value vested in it.

If your numbers are accurate, then the growth rate of the nodes post 2021 is reasonably cool, cos it means there are 7+ new nodes every day from 2021 till date. However, my attention is on the general number.

We should have the least 100k nodes accounted for, while hoping that there are numerous other ones not accounted for.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @dgdhr335 2m

My concern would be more focused on the real centralization on the mining side. That’s to say you essentially rely on bitmain for your ASIC and most hashrate goes through a handful of pools.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nitter 10h bot

https://xcancel.com/ewstevenson/status/1962495016284442628