Saying 1 btc = 1 btc when fiat price goes down is stupidity/cope \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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Saying 1 btc = 1 btc when fiat price goes down is stupidity/cope

239 sats \ 41 comments \ @79c9095526 13h bitcoin

I haven't ever been able to articulate the reasons why I've believed this very well, but think TXMC and Chetan did a good job on X:

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100 sats \ 7 replies \ @kepford 7h

I agree with Booth. If you are pricing btc in dollars you don't get bitcoin.

Many miss the point. Yeah, saying 1 btc = 1 btc can be cope. But the phrase isn't cope. I can be used as cope though.

Here's another example of something I say that more clearly explains why this isn't cope. When the fiat exchange rate price of bitcoin goes down I and many others say "sats are on sale". Or bitcoin is "on sale".

Why? Because the current price of bitcoin in dollars is just a reflection of what the market, many ignorant and some very dumb traders do with their money. In the short term the market can be VERY dumb. In the long term it is not.

We are in what could be called the discovery phase of bitcoin. Its nothing special to bitcoin. Think of bitcoin as a discovery that has value, but the market hasn't really figured it out yet. All you need to do is really study bitcoin for a few months and then listen to people in the financial press talk about it. They don't get it. If they don't get it, do you think the average Joe buying it on Coinbase gets it? Nah.

Do they get fiat? Not really. Most people do not get that fiat has no bottom. They don't get the flaws in the system. The market price of fiat is going down over time. Most people do not realize how much purchasing power it has lost in the last 100 years let alone why. They think inflation is the CPI.

So when the price dips or crashes I'm not surprised. I'm delighted. People are selling bitcoin. More for me.

Another analogy I like to use on my friends that have bought and sold. Regretted it and then repeated a few years later. I tell them this. Imagine you are friends with a guy who has a great invention. You understand it well. You know it has utility, it is gonna take off, but its gonna take time. Maybe you are even knowledgeable in the field and understand it better than most people will. So you invest. You buy in. You're a believer because you know. Are you gonna be swayed by a stock price crash? I would hope not.

This is why I don't agree with saying 1 btc = 1 btc is cope. Sure, like any saying, it could be used that way. I know there are plenty of bitcoiners that have very short vision. They wanna get "rich". They think in fiat terms. I'm gonna sell my bitcoin and something. Hey, whatever they wanna do. But if you get bitcoin... you know you have a best money we have ever seen and you aren't looking at the fiat price everyday. That's not the goal post. Sure, its one factor but when you realize where we are in the discovery phase of this new money you realize we have to zoom out and see the trends. Not the day to day price. The truth is... no one knows the potential value of bitcoin. But many of us think we are getting cheap sats even now.

80 sats \ 2 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 6h

Perhaps some of this has to do with where someone is in their life. You may be in the phase of your life where you earn fiat and therefore can view a price drop from 69k to 20k as "sats on sale".

Someone else may be in the phase of life (like myself) where they are retired and have the vast majority of their networth in bitcoin. I haven't earned a single fiat dollars in years. So when bitcoin drops 50%, that means I can afford (for that moment in time which may last days, weeks, months or years) 50% less cars or groceries or whatever.

You're right that no one knows the potential value of bitcoin. But we do know the current value that the market has decided on. That is roughly $110,000 USD today. We denominate it in USD (or another fiat) because that is translatable to a real world good that we as humans need/want.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5h

@79c9095526

Perhaps some of this has to do with where someone is in their life. You may be in the phase of your life where you earn fiat and therefore can view a price drop from 69k to 20k as "sats on sale".

Indeed this is true. It sounds like you are my senior and with that in mind I thought I would share something that you may already be aware of. There are MANY bitcoiners online that talk big games. They seem really immature and they are full of a lot of bravado. They often have massive logical holes in their "arguments". Some of this is age, some of this is the mediums promoting this type of personality. Personally I don't really consider them representative of a significant number of actual people. Few people are authentic online. Many are trolls for the fun of it. They repeat bromides that while are true have become distorted. They repeat things they do not understand.

In the end... they don't matter. What matters is your vision for your life. How does bitcoin figure into that. How can it help you achieve that. We are in the price discovery phase of bitcoin. I doubt it will become the medium of exchange in your lifetime. It might in mine. I'm not counting on it though. So, this is what directs many of my decisions. I'm not expecting to get rich. But, I am expecting my sons to do so if I have taught them well.

Do with that what you will.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6h

Yeah, that makes sense. Many popular phases in bitcoin are lost in translation. Time preference is just that. A preference and that can and should be dependent on your phase in life and the life you want to live. I think the phrase 1 btc = 1 btc is a reaction to the trader bros that only think about going to the moon.

I don't think we disagree on the merit of market price. I will say most of the people I know that are obsessed with the price today are no where near your stage of life and also younger than myself. The also don't self custody and can't explain much about bitcoin beyond price. So... for me Jeff's statement rings true. Not sure if you've ever listened to him expound on this stuff. He's a sharp guy.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 7h

I wrote about this a while back too #179556. A lot of bitcoiners have high time preference. They don't wanna admit this but I see it in their attitudes. They hold bitcoin so they can sell it later and buy crap. If they really valued it highly they'd realize most of the crap you can buy is gonna fall apart and lose value. They aren't thinking generationally. Bitcoin is little more than a stock to them.

15 sats \ 2 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 7h

Bitcoin is money. A really good money. Perhaps the best money.

But a human does not require money of any form to live their short lifespan on earth. They need food, water, shelter, etc. The money is just a means to obtain the things we really need either now or in the future.

That is why how many cars, bananas or homes you can buy with a bitcoin is vitally important. Every rational holder of bitcoin would want to be able to exchange that bitcoin (now or in the future, for yourself or your heirs) for more goods/services, not less.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 6h

I don't disagree. If you understand these two things... bitcoin and markets the price today makes sense. The price is what it is. Its not the most important thing. It might be for some people though. Maybe the issue is that this is all subjective.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6h

Another economic factor people miss that is relevant here is that value is subjective. Market prices are simply a collection of the many subjective values people show for a thing.

The market price is the market's price. Its not my price. Yeah... my price means little to someone else that wants to buy my bitcoin. But many people don't value bitcoin on its own terms and their understanding. They simply go with the market. Its really kinda absurd. Contrast this with something like your house. Many people do not agree with the current market price of their home. This means they don't sell it. The hold it. Is that subjective? Yeah. And that's the point.

There's two sides. What I value and what the market values. If I need to sell something then I have to accept the market value. We have massive ignorance about how the price system works and how markets work. We all should be taught this stuff in school but we aren't. We are taught stupid Keynesian economics and infected with socialist views of money and value.

110 sats \ 3 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 9h

My version of an explanation:

Bitcoin is money. You use money to buy things.

You can't actually live in a bitcoin or eat a bitcoin so purchasing power is one of the most important factors of bitcoin/money because a good money is used to trade for things one actually needs like food, shelter, etc.

So the number of bananas you can purchase with bitcoin is supremely important. The cost of bananas in 99.99999% of the world is denominated in a fiat currency. And that is what makes the fiat conversion value of your sats equally important, because it defines how many bananas you get.

This seems so self explanatory but yet people fail to grasp such a simple concept.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 7h

So the number of bananas you can purchase with bitcoin is supremely important.

Is it? It would be if you had no other money to use. If you hold one money that is undervalued by the market today and another that is overvalued which one are you gonna spend? When you understand why the fiat exchange rate is actually signaling you will get what Jeff is saying. I wrote about it in my comment earlier. This is a good analogy you use. It explains one reason bitcoiners hold bitcoin instead of trading it for perishable goods like food.

Jeff isn't saying price in fiat isn't a metric to look at every. But that's not what most people are doing. They are ONLY looking at price. Because they don't see the full potential of bitcoin. If they did... bitcoin's price would be much higher.

I look at the fiat price as an irrational thermometer for what the ignorant masses think about bitcoin's value. Like many things... they are wrong but will learn as they are taught more hard lessons.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @79c9095526 OP 6h

Yes, the number of bananas you can purchase with your bitcoin is very important over the long term. I am not concerned with day to day price movements. Here is something I wrote elsewhere:

Bitcoin is money. A really good money. Perhaps the best money.

But a human does not require money of any form to live their short lifespan on earth.

They need food, water, shelter, etc. The money is just a means to obtain the things we really need either now or in the future.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6h

Yeah, 100%. Here's what I may have not communicated clearly. While bitcoin is the best money we've ever seen... it is not a generally accepted medium of exchange. Can it be that? Sure. It can. I believe it will be one day. It isn't today. A lot of bitcoiners don't like to read that or hear that. I'll get called names. The reality is that most people don't see bitcoin filling this function. That's what I'm saying. So... if you need to spend your bitcoin today to live... do it. And price matters a lot to you. No shame in that. Jeff is speaking to traders that trade to gain fiat. I don't have a problem with them. They wanna play games. Fine. I believe in freedom.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 8h

The price of $BTC in fiat terms is the only thing that matters.

I think this is something that makes no sense ... if at the end of the day the bitcoin should be measured with something, it would be against gold. Not against any Fiat currency.

1 sat = 1 sat. It is something that everyone does not understand, and except those that are highly programmed by the fiduciary system.

77 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 11h

You're right. We should say this when the price goes up too.

22 sats \ 8 replies \ @000w2 12h

lol. I'm a bitcoiner because I don't want to use a shitty debt ponzi token as a "measuring stick".

10 sats \ 7 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 12h

i think that is the point these folks are making though. you still do have to use the shitty measuring stick because that is the globally accepted measuring stick for value.

even if someone asks for or accepts sats for payment, it is only in relation to its fiat value (today). this may change someday long in the future, but it is not the reality we live in.

12 sats \ 4 replies \ @flat24 8h

you still do have to use the shitty measuring stick because that is the globally accepted

This is an illusion, you still do not understand that measuring your existence in the worldwide currency leads you to ruin, makes your life and your existence more and more expensive, you still do not see that it is an illusion put so that we cannot see reality.

And the reality is that we must measure our existence in hard money. Not in the money that is worldwide accepted and taxes by decree.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 8h

Go to the grocery store and ask them how much the milk costs in sats. Tell them you have the same number of sats today as yesterday, so how much they want more (or less) sats for the same gallon of milk.

Then come back and tell me it is an illusion.

I'm not saying store your wealth in bitcoin, but you must understand that bitcoin is money, just money. Money is a concept and exchanging it for real goods/services is one of its primary values.

Today bitcoin is a great store of value, but it is not a unit of account in any meaningful sense. So to understand the actual value of that bitcoin you and I worked so hard to save, we must mentally convert the value to a widely used unit of account. Otherwise you don't know how much value you have accrued and what you can get in exchange for those sats.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @daolin 6h

There's no mental conversion to dollars necessary. If someone tells me they own half a Bitcoin, I can think, "Wow, that's pretty good. Financially, they're set up for a good life." That is Bitcoin functioning as a unit of account. We don't need to run the conversion to USD. We're probably better off converting the grocery store prices to sats so that we can understand what we're actually giving up, because the ~$111k price of today really doesn't illustrate the value of a whole Bitcoin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 1h

because the ~$111k price of today really doesn't illustrate the value of a whole Bitcoin.

Totally agree 👉🤠🧠💡

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 1h

Go to the grocery store and ask them how much the milk costs in sats.

You apologize, but I think this is a mistake, I don't need to do that. It is enough for me to know that now I must measure in Sats how much of milk per week or approximately spending spending, and that today with the same amount of Sats that last year I buy at least twice the same product in this case two milks.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @000w2 3h

You don't have to use it. If you travel a lot you get used to using your own unit of account (the unit of your main savings) and you mentally convert random prices in random fiat currencies to your unit of account.

In the tweets above I just see some arrogant douche who's personal unit of account is the dollar trying to tell someone on a bitcoin standard they are wrong.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @daolin 11h

Why would you assume it's long in future? We're only one financial crisis away from denominating everything in SATS, and it's happening in our lifetimes for sure.

69 sats \ 8 replies \ @DarthCoin 13h

don't be a fiat maxi.... Bitcoin is far beyond your comprehension.

10 sats \ 7 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 12h

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 12h

31 sats \ 5 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 12h

lol you're a clown, although i do enjoy your guides.

you live in a different reality of your own making and that is good to push bitcoin forward. just not the reality 99% of people live in. and that is ok.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 12h

I hope you will lose all your sats (if you have few). Bitcoin is not for you.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 10h

Thank god you're not in charge of literally anything and you don't get to decide who bitcoin is/isn't for

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 10h

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @79c9095526 OP 9h

Nah, its for anyone who wants to buy it. Not everything in life is black and white.

But I'm sure you know this and just assume this persona online because no one can be that stupid ;)

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124 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 12h

I agree with your title but I don’t with

The price of $BTC in fiat terms is the only thing that matters.

I’d love to watch the Jeff Booth clip because maybe only reading the quote is missing a lot of context but I can’t since you shared screenshots instead of links. Why?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @79c9095526 OP 10h

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nitter 10h

https://xcancel.com/TFTC21/status/1965025074127458385

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 11h

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Fenix 9h

Bitcoin self-referential makes sense because fiat is shit, we can’t compare shit with money.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @79c9095526 OP 9h

Bitcoin is money. You use money to buy things.

This seems so self explanatory but yet people fail to grasp such a simple concept.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Fenix 9h

You still haven't understood that the inflationary paper used as a unit of account is nothing more than an imposition. 1 = ₿ is 1 = ₿, conversion to fiat is a fiduciary crutch that tries to fit the current financial standard into a bitcoin standard that is not compatible.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @79c9095526 OP 8h

Nope. You are 100% incorrect. Easiest way for me to prove it to you is the following:

Let us assume today you can walk into any car dealership and buy a car with sats. 4 years ago, that car may have cost you 1 bitcoin. Today it costs you 1/4 of a bitcoin. BUT BUT BUT 1 BITCOIN = 1 BITCOIN????? Yup, 1 bitcoin is 1 bitcoin. But that is meaningless in real life.

1 bitcoin in today's world can be exchanged at a market driven rate for the actual unit of account. Every good/service a human would want to purchase with their earnings/savings is priced in that unit of account. We don't live in your fantasy world today where everything is accounted for in bitcoin. In fact, almost nothing is.

Imposition or not, the vast majority of the world uses a fiat measuring stick to price goods and services. To understand the value of the bitcoin you have, you need to be able to mentally convert it into fiat which then has a correlation to actual goods/services a human needs.

This may not always be the case, but it is the case today.

So while you may pretend to live in a fantasy world where everything is priced in bitcoin, you are lying to yourself and to others on here when you say that.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fenix 6h

Fiat maxi