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0 sats \ 17 replies \ @tomlaies 22 Sep \ parent \ on: Can I Use Coinos as a Swap Exchange as an Alternative to Boltz? bitcoin_beginners
Fascinating.
Could they do something about that? Like do something to offset the sink-effect?
E.g. offer some service that is a net sats filler, offset the sink effect such that peers can rebalance the channels?
Not really. Their business model is to help retailers accept Lightning Bitcoin.
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When I use Coinos I load BTC from L1 or L2.
I think many other Coinos consumer users would do the same.
Coinos is not only for retailers but also people who want to spend sats and your assertion that they are a sats sink is highly contestable - a lot of consumers load sats into coinos to spend them.
As seen on trustpilot there looks to be a some competitors fucked off that Coinos offers such a great low fee product and these competitor appear to be seeking to dis and defame Coinos because these competitors do not offer such a good low fee service.
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a lot of consumers load sats into coinos to spend them.
Is it, functionally, same as, for example, loading sats into my Blockstream green lightning to spend at retailers? Both non-custodial, right? That means coinos can rugpull my lightning sats as much as Blockstream green?
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Blockstream green is just Blockstream wallet now, and it is L1 only and non-custodial, i.e. you control the private keys, not some server. Blockstream cannot rug you. Coinos is both L1 and L2, and is custodial. They can steal your coins. If you want non-custodial lightning without running your own node, look at Phoenix. But keep in mind that opening channels costs money, so your first payment will be expensive.
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Will stick with Coinos thanks, as they are by far the best LN service I can see in the market.
Lowest fees by far.
Prefer keeping L1 sats on a different wallet, Electrum.
Electrum cannot rug me and cold storage on Electrum is better than any HW, imo.
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Depends on where you run your Electrum. Many Windows viruses exist to steal from this wallet. Check out TailsOS.
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Would never use windows state surveillance shatware for anything let alone Bitcoin computing.
Would you???
FFS Never use apple or windows shatware for serious Bitcoin computing.
I have not used either, this century, for anything.
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Blockstream has lightning features too. They can rugpull my lightning sats, right? But not my on chain sats?
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I dont know much technically but think any wallet that custodys our sats could probably in theory rugpull them.
All I know is coinos fees are very low, it can be used on any browser and I have always has very good response from Adam if there's ever any problem.
I just want an easy to use LN wallet with low fees and coinos does that very well for me...so far so good anyway.
Obviously never leave a lot of sats sitting in wallet where you dont have direct custody of the sats.
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Sure, lots are using as a wallet to pay sats and zap on Nostr. But these are small balances. Custodial lightning is risky, and Coinos lost customer funds in the past. So all large balances get withdrawn to L1.
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Not true.
I have sent L1 BTC to coinos to then send to a LN exchange where I sell for fiat.
And surely others do the same.
While I agree you would not leave large sums on Coinos it can be used to transfer from L1 to L2/LN and then moved to an LN CEX or DEX.
Initially the LN exchange (https://lightningpay.nz/) had some difficulty handling the volume I was sending but once channels were established it went smoothly.
So its simply not true that all large balances get withdrawn to L1.
I also route my mining sats to coinos and then spend them- on SNs or anywhere that is accepting LN/sats.
Using any other LN wallet would cost a lot more in fees.
You don't have anything to say about the fake, hostile, untrue and defamatory reviews on trustpilot dissing coinos?
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I communicate with Adam and I tell you what majority of flows are doing, not yours. Going L1 to LN is easy and cheap by opening a channel. Going back is harder and more expensive. Inbound liquidity is a valuable commodity in lightning, that is why people sell channels.
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You claimed that.
'all large balances get withdrawn to L1.'
Simply not true.
I can see how conversion back onto the L1 would tend to be more expensive as it requires a transaction to the L1 blockchain although fees on there are now very low.
It looks like Coinos charge fees based on close to what it costs them and operate on low margins which is good for customers compared to the very high fees/margins most other LN wallets charge.
I could not believe the fees charged on some LN wallets. Usury comes to mind!
Coinos is exceptional in charging very low LN fees and that makes spending sats a lot more viable.
While custodial is inherently requiring some trust in a third party operating your own node and wallet is not for everyone and also comes with some risks.
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Conversion of LN back to L1 requires closing the channels, and this looks bad for a node stats. And you can't get inbound capacity this way. Try running a lightning node for a couple of years and you will get idea of the flows. Coinos charges 0.4% for BTC withdrawals, on top of chain fees.
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Yeah I get that- still Coinos fees are overall waaaay lower than any other wallet I have seen.
Don't want to have to manage channels and nodes- just want to spend and sent sats and Coinos makes that easy.
I can deposit BTC into Coinos from L1 for free (excluding miner fees which are really low now anyway) and transfer via LN to other platforms and the only charge is I think 0.1 %. Incredibly good value.
Don't know what other wallets charge to transfer from LN back to L1- are any less than 0.4%? I doubt it.