Arké Wallet: Ark wallet using second.tech implementation - Christoph Ono \ stacker news ~Design

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Arké Wallet: Ark wallet using second.tech implementation - Christoph Ono github.com/GBKS/arke

853 sats \ 33 comments \ @Scoresby 5 Nov Design

This is the first prototype of a wallet I've heard of that uses second.tech's implementation of Ark. I haven't tried using it (it's still pretty much just a prototype), but I really like the aesthetic Christoph is going for.

Here are some screenshots:

You can see some discussion around the development of this wallet on Second's fabulous community forum.

My only sadness is that this is yet another wallet using the ₿ for sats. There's been a ton of these lately and they're going to have to pry sats out of my cold dead lips before I talk about Bitcoin this way.

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17 sats \ 26 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Nov

0 sats \ 25 replies \ @Scoresby OP 5 Nov

I think I grasp the criticisms of Ark, but I'm curious: do you think we should bother with any constructions other than Lightning?

I don't think it is the case that Lightning is the only way to use move Bitcoin transactions off the main chain while preserving many properties of Bitcoin.

119 sats \ 24 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Nov

I have nothing against these new developments. The thing I do not like is that they come to present themselves as a new L2 to "fix LN" and that is a damn lie,

All these L2s are just to fool new comers into scams... and fun fact they all depend of LN to function, otherwise are just totally useless. Ark is not doing anything different than LN. The problem is that are many people that didn't go deeper into studying and learning more how LN can be used in many applications and they just want to be that guy meme "I am here to fix Bitcoin and LN"...

I think my old meme describe it perfectly:

We barely scratched the surface of using LN...

21 sats \ 23 replies \ @Scoresby OP 5 Nov

If there were a lot of people using ark (or statechains)...they might not need so much to rely on lightning. Just as getting sats from lightning to mainchain meant closing a channel in the early days, things like Ark haven't been built out very much.

There is certainly an element of first-mover advantage here: if Ark was proposed at the same time as Lightning, I'm not sure what the landscape would look like today. Lightning benefited from a long run of everyone treating it with kid gloves. Maybe it needed that to get to the place it is today -- pretty sturdy, reliable, and impressive.

I agree that calling these other things a replacement for lightning is silly. And no doubt there is a lot of shady marketing going on. But I'm still interested in what people can do with them because Bitcoin is an open system and people will build whatever they like. Some of it will work, some will not, and a lot will work in ways we didn't expect.

17 sats \ 21 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Nov

But I'm still interested in what people can do with them

Scams, gambling casinos, tokens, stablecrapcoins and all that plethora of bullshit.

0 sats \ 20 replies \ @Scoresby OP 5 Nov

yes, but also receiving while offline and low-balance receiving or small amount receiving when you don't already have a channel open. The latter especially is something that lightning has not solved, but it is a legitimate use case.

123 sats \ 14 replies \ @justin_shocknet 22h

also receiving while offline and low-balance receiving or small amount receiving when you don't already have a channel open

Ark solves neither of those things, trust and centralization do. Lightning can do the same thing if wallets were to compromise themselves, Ark is just re-branding being compromised.

100 sats \ 13 replies \ @Scoresby OP 21h

Please tell me if I have this incorrect:

In LN, if I want to receive a low amount of LN sats and do not already have a channel open, custodial is pretty much the only way to go. Someone who does have a channel must receive the sats on my behalf and I have to trust them. If I keep receiving, I will eventually be able to open a channel, but I will have to pay for it (onchain fees + potential purchase of liquidity).

In Ark, if I want to receive a low amount of Ark sats and do not already have a vUTXO, I can still receive sats as a new vUTXO. Now, what is this thing? Does it have unilateral exit? if it's less than ~200 sats, certainly not. If I keep receiving, I will eventually have enough sats in vUTXOs to be able to unilaterally withdraw; however, this won't necessarily impose a cost on me until I withdraw.

In neither case am I talking about receiving sats from a different protocol or from mainchain. While I agree that it's not self-sovereign as the main chain, it also doesn't seem like the above description fits "re-branding being compromised" any more than LN.

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102 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 21h

Again, for me is very clear: Ark will always depend of LN to go out in real world to make payments. Yeah maybe will be few solutions for merchants to use vsats only with other ark users inside an ASP, but that will make them just an isolated niche.

And as usual I have a prepared meme.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby OP 21h

Yes. I understand this better now. Basically, Ark needs very large and widespread ASPs or it has to use LN.

I shouldn't be calling it Ark so much as Arks. There isn't any single Ark like there is a single LN network. I think I knew this, but I wasn't thinking about the implications.

Maybe there is a world where Arks pay each other onchain in batch settlements once a day or something, but it starts to look even more like custody at that point.

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119 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Nov

We already have hosted channels, 0-conf channels, cashu etc There are many ways to onboard "zero sats" noobs.

Do you know that I can open a 0-conf channel with your node and in an instant I can send/receive sats without even leaving a trace onchain and never close that channel?

Zeus also have a nice onboarding strategy: with the graduating wallet 0-sats user start with cashu, stacking slowly. When the balance is high enough the user can open a 0-conf channel with the LSP or any other node and have a proper LN channel. But very few people are studying all these aspects and use cases.

Few years ago I did an experiment with a school. Onboardingn an entire school kids and teachers starting from zero sats. I used a LNbits, a bunch of empty wallets and opening 0-conf channels. In few days they start having each some sats, without knowledge, without buying any sats from exchanges, only from an ad-hoc bitcoin circular economy. And nobody says that LN is hard to use !

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 22h

if Ark was proposed at the same time as Lightning

It'd have been laughed off the stage as the centralized trust-based nonsense it is, since then we've been over-run with DeFi-brained clowns and unprincipled VC's that pivoted from Shitcoins 1.0 to Shitcoins 2.0

102 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 23h

I don’t mind the ₿ for Bitcoin/sats. The decimal places past zero breaks brains and we still don’t have a sats symbol.

This looks sleek but is it desktop only? Plus VTXOs I find really lame.

66 sats \ 0 replies \ @plebpoet 5 Nov

i agree on the sats thing

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @hasherstacker 23h

If LN has flaws, the fake L2s are worst than what's considered to be the disease.

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Nov

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @deSign_r 11h

Fashion glamour perfectly fit the case

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @plebpoet 5 Nov

christoph = legend