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One of the most surprising things we learned at TABConf was that many bitcoiners hate custodial wallets and have no interest in running their own lightning nodes.

If not for Phoenix' UX, I would have been one of them. I ran an lnd early on (home node on 2 Odroid hc4 boards) and although it was interesting, I lost quite the sack of sats to poor channel management and I ended up pretty negative about LN for a while. I feel that before LN, defending your stash meant simply protecting your keys and not sending coin to a scammer. Life was simple if you'd figured those 2 out, whereas now there's a lot more complexity.

I suspect they'd be cool with the middle ground of a robust statechain/sidechain

I don't know. Statechains is a loaded subject, because Paul has been too much of a tizzy dick about those since 2014, and in general sidechains are a burden because you'd need to sync 2 chains.


Bonus take re: custodial wallets

The only problem with CCs is that there are a bunch of assmilkers and other clowns roaming here that are campaigning for custodial wallets because of some horse emoji. But I don't want to use custodial services. These are wildly antithetical to Bitcoin to use, as we were here for the p2p electronic money, not Banking 2.0. Fuck banks.

202 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 27 Dec
The only problem with CCs is that there are a bunch of assmilkers and other clowns roaming here that are campaigning for custodial wallets because of some horse emoji.

If we didn't want SN to support marketplaces, and didn't enjoy reading about stackers buying little things with their proceeds, I probably wouldn't have bothered doing all this noncustodial lightning stuff. I suspect it'll be worth it a few iterations from now, but you're right that CCs do most of what we need doing today.

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It's not so much an SN problem as it is a generic LN problem, I think - at least for me, nowadays. Since I'm roaming, it's not really feasible to run a small box with lnd, and it's nasty to have active keys on a hosted box in a datacenter. (And yes, it's even more nasty to use someone else's banking service that has active keys on a hosted box in a DC.) I will test Zeus with NWC but I fear that at the rate lnd eats my phone battery, I'm not going to be cheering all that much.

I have thought up somewhat of a scheme using a hosted so-hot-its-burning Shockwallet combined with a somewhat cooler Zeus for offloading, to test, but I still heavily dislike both the cost and complexity. Just need to find a quiet moment to set it up and see what's what.

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