> we need zero utxo ~ self custody to get off the ground

Fees are like 15 cents. If someone cannot afford a Lightning channel at these rates... either miner incentives collapse (sort of happening) or it's not going to get any cheaper.

In my experience self-custody lightning can be pretty good on a phone-embedded

to make payments you currently have to choose between self custody lightning (expensive to open, realistically requires a pc), and custodial lightning/ecash. not every country even has good custodians available. we need zero utxo ~ self custody to get off the ground

ynniv

ten times as many transactions will get fees well off the floor. ten more times will get them uncomfortably high.

With a median fee of 13 cents... at 1 sat/vb the total fees are around 1200$. Meaning that the subsidy is around 285,300$ with no fees.

If we needed ALL fees to replace that subsidy... then 285,300/1200 ~ 238.

So 238 x 13 cents is 31$ per median transaction fee. Assuming it's 

 subsidy and the same miner revenue opening a Lightning channel would be ~50$.

Would people pay that? If they understood the value of Bitcoin yes. In its current level of understanding? No. In fact fees are near record lows.

for the chain to be a place of settlement between custodians, and for us to not have to trust them. that's how we get to 10b wallets.

I can barely get my hairdresser to take it... and that's only because she gets $$$ & I have known her several years.

without them it gets pushed into regulated paper, and held in increasingly tighter boxes until people stop using it and it loses value

I feel we are already on our way 'there'. Sometimes I wonder if Bitcoin is just the 'blackberry'... to some other 'iphone' seriously

bitcoin

I paid my hairdresser recently on SQUARE and I don't know how I feel about it

anon

> ten times as many transactions will get fees well off the floor. ten more times will get them uncomfortably high.

With a median fee of 13 cents... at 1 sat/vb the total fees are around 1200$. Meaning that the subsidy is around 285,300$ with no fees.

If we needed ALL fees to replace that subsidy... then 285,300/1200 ~ 238. 

So 238 x 13 cents is 31$ per median transaction fee. Assuming it's *almost* 2x to open a lightning channel, with *NO* subsidy and the same miner revenue opening a Lightning channel would be ~50$.

Would people pay that? If they understood the value of Bitcoin yes. In its current level of understanding? No. In fact fees are near record lows.

> for the chain to be a place of settlement between custodians, and for us to not have to trust them. that's how we get to 10b wallets.

I can barely get my hairdresser to take it... and that's only because she gets $$$ & I have known her several years.

> without them it gets pushed into regulated paper, and held in increasingly tighter boxes until people stop using it and it loses value

I feel we are already on our way 'there'. Sometimes I wonder if Bitcoin is just the 'blackberry'... to some other 'iphone' seriously