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I called this a "book club" because I started reading Max Hillebrand's The Praxeology of Privacy (#1489281) this week and I figured there are other people who also want to read it. It's a long book, but the first part was very interesting and I plan on reading the rest over the summer. I'll post some updates as I go and would love to hear what other Stackers have to say about this interesting combination of Austrian economics and cypherpunk action.

Part I - FoundationsPart I - Foundations

Privacy tools do not hide information. They raise the price of dominationPrivacy tools do not hide information. They raise the price of domination

The first part of the book is mostly setting the stage, explaining why privacy is more fundamental than popular opinion allows and how the cypherpunk approach fits together with Austrian economics. While, I begrudgingly accept that one cannot always plunge straight in to the topics at hand, and I appreciated that Hillebrand didn't take too much time with the initial setup stuff, I think I would have liked a more throw-me-into-the-deepend approach.

Hillebrand does a very nice job explaining why privacy -- the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world a la Eric Hughes --

is not a separate property right alongside ownership of one’s body and ownership of scarce external resources. What ordinary language calls “privacy” is what self-ownership of the body, property rights in physical devices and premises, and contractual confidentiality produce when respected.

And if you can actually maintain your privacy, you can retain some significant power even with respect to the state:

An adversary who wants to control, seize, punish, censor, or preempt must first observe. Without observation the rest of the sequence stalls. A state that cannot see funds cannot freeze them on command, a platform that cannot inspect messages cannot rank or suppress them with the same precision, and a regulator who cannot map the network cannot identify the soft points where pressure will hurt most.

Observation is why the fight over privacy begins so early in the chain. It looks passive. But it is not. Observation is what lets every later intervention become targeted and cheap. The defender’s advantage lies exactly here.

This may sound overly cypherpunk and you might wonder where Austrian economics theory comes into it. Hillebrand tries to identify where the two approaches overlap, describing some shared conclusions:

  • Human beings act on private judgments before those judgments become public.
  • Exchange works better when parties can choose what to disclose.
  • Free order can emerge without a master plan.
  • Surveillance and coercion damage the process they claim to improve.
  • A tradition that starts with action is pushed toward privacy.
  • A tradition that tries to defend freedom in code is pushed there too.

While it does seem like there is a lot of shared real estate, I'll be curious to see how Hillebrand develops this. I think there is an interesting tension between the cypherpunks write code ethos and the more theoretical Austrian approach. I tend to believe that the world works the way people say when they can build things that function in that world. But I'm also sympathetic to Austrian descriptions of how the world seems to work. I suspect that Hillebrand will have to do some interesting work to keep them always aligned.

Whatever the case, I know a book is going to be interesting to me when on almost every page I find myself chasing down leads on other things to read. Here is the list of things from the first part of The Praxeology of Privacy that I want to look into further:


I plan on reading Part II: Axioms (40pps) for next week if you want to join in.

202 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 3 Jun

Great idea. I have been so busy lately I haven't gotten the opportunity to crack this one yet. I hope I don't end up just following your conversation without being able to contribute. this is the perfect material for a book club.

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Yes, I think it will lead to a lot of learning on my part. The introductory part was easy to read and had a few interesting points to think about...as well as a bunch of interesting references/foot notes.

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I read the whole thing in my own private book club (1 member).

Will be following along.

This book is a great pick to break down and discuss.

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excited to hear your take on it.

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Privacy tools do not hide information. They raise the price of domination

Not gonna lie, and not accusing anyone of anything here, but this sentence genuinely already makes me not wanna read the book.

Sorry about the negativity. I think it says more about me than it does the book, and how I react towards certain turns of phrases now.

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I think I kinda get it.

I don't understand why authors try so darn hard to come up with a novel declaration when there are perfectly good ones out there. (Selective revelation is my preferred one.)
So there's only so much try-harding I can stomach before I ask myself if there's enough signal making it worth it to work through that stuff.

Having said all that, the domination bit does kinda make sense in the context of the OODA loop that Hillebrand keeps referring to, if the goal of a group applying it is to dominate the observed group.
In isolation without prior knowledge, though, I'd have reacted very similarly.

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Negativity welcome. Can you give me a good reason to not read the rest?

Well, maybe that's a bad question. Rather, I'm curious what turned you off about the question...particularly because it was something I found interesting. (Feel free to speak your mind, you won't hurt my feelings)

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My negativity isn't about the topic, or even the information content.

It's that the phrasing makes it sound very AI. Again, I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am saying that I now have a negative aesthetic reaction to phrasing along the lines of "It's not X it's Y".

Especially when the words used are very vague like "raise the price of domination"

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Ah, yes. I see that. Each chapter ends with a summary that does make the book feel a bit slop like. It wasn't bad enough that I got turned off though. Perhaps I am too willing to read slop, though. (I do find that I am duped by sloppyists on SN more frequently than I like to admit).

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Too much dominatrix, I gotcha

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I think there is an interesting tension between the cypherpunks write code ethos and the more theoretical Austrian approach. I tend to believe that the world works the way people say when they can build things that function in that world. But I'm also sympathetic to Austrian descriptions of how the world seems to work.

It's important to keep in mind that when Austrians (or any economist (or really any scientist)) are describing how the world works, they are typically doing so wrt a fairly specific situation.

Just because Austrians write a ton about prices and markets, doesn't mean they don't think there are other influences in the world that could cause events to play out differently than in their hypotheticals. In fact, Austrian works like Power and Market, Bureaucracy, and A Theory of Socialism and Capitalism all try to expand the description of how the world works to explain prominent non-market forces.

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @unboiled 3 Jun

I'll try to catch up, but no promises.
Between traveling and programming workshops, I'm not sure if I'll muster enough stamina to catch up from a week down.

But I do have the epub ready, waiting to be put on my reader. Might as well bring that forward.

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Well, hopefully it is just a thing where folks can dip in and out of it - with no pressure to read every word.

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It's incredible, and def count me in.

I read some 50 pages in his earlier versions, and the final published book-version just arrived in the post a few days ago. Very excited.

plus:

  • every page content -> 100% agree.
This may sound overly cypherpunk and you might wonder where Austrian economics theory comes into it.

Yes, me too. I struggled a little at first with this connection but I guess I got used to it

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