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Would you do a coinjoin if you had a 50-50 chance of winning a small sum from the person with whom you were coinjoining?

Here, waxwing describes a method of using Bitcoin script to give transaction participants even odds of winning a small sum from each other. You could see a world where coinjoining could be kind of fun, and hey, maybe you win something (plus you get privacy)!

See his nostr note for details:

Nothing about the two transactions shown is strange. The first is 2 in 2 out, the second is 1 in, 2 out; normal payments [1]. If you examine their witness you'll see they're like 90% of other taproot transactions, just keypath, no scripts involved.

But in fact, this is a bet. Two parties flipped a fair coin for the winnings (a small chunk of the input funds). Not literally; they used cryptography to get an exactly 50% chance of winning without having to trust the other. They were both running signet nodes (in fact I had one on my laptop at home and another on a VPS), and used decoy packets in BIP324 (bitcoin p2p encrypted transport) to communicate, so no one could even know the negotiation was happening (side note: this idea feels like it should be useful in many other contexts, and it's surprisingly easy to set up, with a very simple patch to your bitcoind).

So we have a fair bet inside a coinjoin; you could think of it as a randomized payjoin if you like, but, the transfer of funds is not for some goods and services but, just a wager, and it's perfectly fair because of a cryptographic trick that was discussed on delving [2] though it's changed from what was written there.

Payments inside coinjoins break subset sum analysis; this is just another kind of payment. Amongst other virtues of such a system is that it creates economic activity between peers without middlemen which is vital to Bitcoin's general pseudonymity.

The implementation is at https://github.com/AdamISZ/babilonia . The repo is currently 95% AI-written so not very readable (still not unreadable, but, y'know how it is) but I have a paper that I've nearly finished that is human written and human readable for those interested in the mechanics.

[1] In fact those familiar with details of payjoins will see something specific about the 1st transaction that makes it like a payjoin. But it isn't hard to remove that, and anyway, it's only a watermark for 'this is a payjoin', not for what it actually is...

[2] https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/emulating-op-rand/1409/7
124 sats \ 2 replies \ @Kruw 27 Jul

I zapped this post back up to the top. When you combine Babilonia with The Black Hole, you create a perpetual anonymous lottery on the base layer that all coins go through before being spend.

#1530076

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I love the concept of Babilonia. Yopaki was interested in Mexican lottery and I wonder if they could be interested in something like this.

It may be difficult for any company to do though, what with gambling being likely to attract the sour eye of the government.

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103 sats \ 0 replies \ @Kruw 27 Jul
It may be difficult for any company to do though

It doesn't matter, it's inevitable. Economics defeats governments.

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122 sats \ 1 reply \ @Lux 27 Jul

the vibez

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🎯

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I'm familiar with Coinjoin and its privacy concerns for users; what they're proposing is both new and interesting.

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103 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 12 Jul

I'd be OK if the wager is small as in a few thousand sats or simply the TX fee. This looks more like payjoin as the outputs are not identical.

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Yes, thanks for the correction: it is a payjoin. But I believe the concept is that the wager remains small.

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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @OT 12 Jul

deleted by author

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @LAXITIVA 12 Jul -100 sats

This sounds like word salad thank u