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Just about every morning I go to my local bagel shop to have a bagel and drink too much coffee. I have joined one of those informal old guy groups that sit around bullshitting the morning away.

Before you ask, yes and no. I have tried to get these codgers interested in bitcoin, and no, they don't want to hear about it at all. That's a conversation for another post.

This morning when I got to the counter to pay I noticed they had a new Square terminal. Completely unplanned, I heard myself ask the employee "can I pay with bitcoin?" She recognized me and just said "I don't know", and handed me the device. I started pressing buttons and trying to find the word bitcoin anywhere, but no luck. The good news is that she would accept my bitcoin if I could figure out how to send it. Rude New Yorkers were growing impatient and making grunting sounds behind me on the line, so I just paid in dollars.

I realized I was unprepared. I have since researched Square a little. I think that the employee in this place probably already clicked credit card as a payment method as she entered the amount I owed. Next time, I will choose a less busy day and ask her if we can choose bitcoin right as she enters the price.

I can't get very enthusiastic about square. I just wonder if adoption is being advanced when the bitcoin I pay is immediately converted to US dollars. I'll still try to use it, if for no other reason than normies might get more comfortable with bitcoin.

1233 sats \ 8 replies \ @DarthCoin 21h

As I said so many times: US will be the last place on Earth where Bitcoin will be a common way to pay for things.

When I see americans excited about Square shit, I just laugh... Square is a pathetic intent, is a fucking INTERMEDIARY !

How many times we have to bring again the Bitcoin whitepaper abstract?

Anything that is through an intermediary IT IS NOT BITCOIN.

Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. (Square)
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I don't disagree with you completely, and I'm not excited. I guess it's a matter of perspective. Widespread adoption isn't a goal for you, which is understandable (most people are too stupid for bitcoin😀)

On the other hand, normalizing bitcoin, by at least hearing the word frequently in the context of a payment method, can be important, especially in the least likely place for adoption.

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139 sats \ 5 replies \ @optimism 20h
On the other hand, normalizing bitcoin, by at least hearing the word frequently in the context of a payment method, can be important, especially in the least likely place for adoption.

The problem is still the lock-in with the vendor, but that is not your problem, it's theirs. They're probably locked in without Bitcoin too, fwiw.

If you ask yourself "what do I want to do with my sats?", is "spending them it at this bagel shop" one of the things that comes to mind? If it is, then it is worth spending time on this. But if it isn't and it's just a maybe-nice-to-have then I wouldn't focus on it. "Adoption" in a setting where other people that you have no business with go from not accepting Bitcoin, to accepting Bitcoin - maybe we should call this "3rd party orange pilling" - is a great virtue signal but unless you aspire to be the Bitcoin Helpdesk, is it really something that helps? I generally try to orange pill only people that I do business with or that I would actually send sats; then it isn't hypothetical, it's just straight-forward(ish) business.

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The rubber hits the road when I'm standing there ready to pay. If I can pay with bitcoin, I will, whether or not I'm benefitting anyone but myself. Maybe it's just to make myself feel good. I can't help thinking that paying with bitcoin is better than not paying with bitcoin, even if the real benefit is negligible.

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37 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 19h
paying with bitcoin is better than not paying with bitcoin

This I agree with. Note that to me personally, being able to spend sats directly is very important. Even though you get to know and hang with a lot of people if you depend on selling sats to friends for cash to survive, it would be better to spend sats at the person delivering the service. No "middlemen". Last week I had to buy a gift card for a supermarket chain to feed myself, instead of my usual mom&pop groc shop, which sucks even more.

I would go for it if I were in your place.

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I understand you and your frustration. You are just trying to do the right thing, I know.

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162 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 20h

Sad truth: americans will never see more than Square adoption for the merchants.
That's why they are all so excited to see a merchant with a Square terminal.

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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 6h

I'm not from the US, but what about Steak&Shake? Isn't it possible to pay there directly via LN?

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honest question,

is this not an albeit shitty, but almost required step for merchants to get their hands on some and realize it not some ponzi scheme. i mean your comment makes me think of that shitty rap song.

0 to 100 real quick, real fucking quick.

without education about it, very few are gonna set up a personal wallet.
let alone a node to verify themselves.

i dont see the acceptance of bitcoin as payment going from where we are now, straight to self custody node running merchants (not in the US at least) without there being some complete failure of the current system, which as much as we would maybe like to see it happen, most likely wont happen anytime soon.

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I have joined one of those informal old guy groups that sit around bullshitting the morning away.

While still some decades off for me, I am curious to know how this process unfolds!

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It's sort of spontaneous. The only requirement is to look really old and show up regularly! Someone always strikes up a conversation and everyone joins in.

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329 sats \ 1 reply \ @OneOneSeven 19h

PSA/FYI

I went to a mall the other day and I'm paying at the food court with tap-to-pay at a Square.

Just as I tap the phone and have paid, I spot a little toggle in the top left of the terminal where I saw a $ / â‚¿ button.

So just keep your eyes peeled for that toggle, that's the first time I'd seen it in the wild, but I guess it's out there.

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Nice heads up. Thanks

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"I don't know" and handing the device over to you is definitely an above-median response! Too bad you weren't able to convert.

I just wonder if adoption is being advanced when the bitcoin I pay is immediately converted to US dollars.

IMO, it's just realism. Smooth UX and integration into existing systems is necessary for adoption. Just like how any new system trying to replace a legacy system needs to have smooth integration with the legacy system before people will use it.

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It's not like the bitcoin disappears. Someone has it and will either do something with it or lose it. Both of those are good for bitcoiners.

The bottom line is that we want to use bitcoin to pay for stuff and Square (supposedly) made that possible.

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140 sats \ 3 replies \ @optimism 22h
I just wonder if adoption is being advanced when the bitcoin I pay is immediately converted to US dollars.

If you're like me (not many are) and every fiat unit you spend is converted from Bitcoin to there, then this is still the better option.

Maybe the adoption gain here isn't what your counterparty ultimately does with their bitcoin (that's none of our business anyway) but instead what it could enable you to do, if you wanted that (i.e. pay from your hot wallet directly and not have to exchange to fiat all the damn time.)

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Good points. I will keep trying these payments. As we get more familiar with square, maybe we can start educating our local merchants that already know and trust us.

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162 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 22h

I second the observation - what it could enable you to do

I don't really care what other people are doing with their money, but I definitely want to be able to buy more stuff directly from my bitcoin wallet.

Great job asking, though!

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37 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 22h
maybe we can start educating our local merchants that already know and trust us.

I think that that works best. Off rush hour preferably, to not get growled at.

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139 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby 21h

I do think there is value in people recognizing bitcoin as a method of payment but yes they are just going to convert the sats into dollars. I wonder if there is an option for the merchant to retain the Bitcoin and not have it converted to dollars. That would be interesting.

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77 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 21h
I wonder if there is an option for the merchant to retain the Bitcoin and not have it converted to dollars.

There at least used to be: https://squareup.com/us/en/the-bottom-line/inside-square/getting-started-with-bitcoin-on-square

Starting November 10, 2025, you’ll be able to accept bitcoin and automatically receive your funds in bitcoin (BTC) or U.S. dollars (USD). Square is also waiving processing fees until 2027, so you can accept bitcoin at 0% fees, with no chargebacks, and instant access to your funds.
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162 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 21h

Nice. Then I do think there is a lot of value of paying in Bitcoin. At some point if enough people are paying in Bitcoin merchants will say "hey there is something to this maybe we should retain it".

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37 sats \ 0 replies \ @000w2 13h
is immediately converted to US dollars

It's not converted into anything, it remains as bitcoin.

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Even if it settles to USD on the merchant's side, I still think it's a step in the right direction. Most businesses care more about simplicity and avoiding volatility than holding BTC. Once they're comfortable accepting bitcoin, it's easier to imagine some of them eventually choosing to keep a portion in BTC instead of auto-converting. Every successful payment helps normalize the experience for both merchants and customers.