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Open channels, close channels, and pay on chain in a single Coinjoin/Lightning hybrid transaction.

@DarthCoin what do you think :)

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1035 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 27 Jul

Fine for me. More options is good.
I personally try to avoid as much is possible splicing. Splicing should not be used at regular basis, but only when is really needed it, as submarine swaps. Unfortunately many users do not understand well how to use them properly and abuse their use.

I also try to avoid as much is possible any onchain payment. I use onchain exclusively for opening/closing LN channels and sometimes swaps.

I do not think I will "join" into a multiple transaction with a splice just for the sake of using that "coinjoin" tx and save few sats. But if I really have to do a splice and the wallet app automatically find a "joined" tx with others and as user I do not have to do anything else, I don't mind. As I said many times: coinjoin for me is in the past, I do not use it anymore. LN is much better in terms of privacy.

I've said many times: through a single LN channel you can pass by infinite amount of sats, infinite coinjoins without any trace onchain (except the opening/closing amount). But seems that many people still do not understand this LN "feature". The smart thing is to avoid touching onchain not to coinjoin over and over.

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The smart thing is to avoid touching onchain not to coinjoin over and over.

Yep, I agree. I think under Bitcoin's Nash Equilibrium, a rational economic actor will perform two onchain txs:

  • Omega close your low productivity LN channels through WabiSabi (commits to fees and resizes outputs for ZeroLink)
  • Vortex coinjoin to open your next channels into a new routing node (completely unconnected from the your previous node identity)
  • Any leftover dust that isn't shaved down into standard sized denominations gets "redeemed" as raffle tickets to claim the coinjoin anchor fee output

Everybody wins. Maximum on chain efficiency (100 vbytes per user in Vortex opens). Maximum off chain efficiency: All txs are channel closes or channel opens. Miners win because this feeds them coins perpetually. Passive users win from providing JoinMarket, Payjoin, and Lightning liquidity.

If we get a cross input signature aggregation soft fork, we are AUSTRIAN ECONOMAXXING and increasing throughput for coinjoiners relative to solo spenders.

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161 sats \ 2 replies \ @anon 27 Jul

Wouldn't it be cool if you splice out htlcs instead of force closing the entire channel?

Maybe one day.

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14 sats \ 1 reply \ @Kruw OP 27 Jul

You already can with simple two party splicing: https://x.com/PhoenixWallet/status/1678781368309018624

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140 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 27 Jul

Blog does not mention force closures.

Also, phoenix? lol (there are dozens of us!)

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Nice

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146 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 26 Jul -520 sats

This might actually be useful from a fee savings perspective, which should be the sole focus. Stay away from the privacy claims (privacy paradox) as it will invariably be centrally coordinated, sybil'd, and attract undue scrutiny onto its users.

Privacy Paradox:

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