First thing, thanks to @optimism, @0xbitcoiner, @ek and all other stackers that provided useful feedback to my previous offer.
I've spent some time doing the ~math and decided to set this new offer in a way that, when you buy CCs through the ~AGORA, you also supports the reward pool, we actually do it together :) Of the 9% reward-pool fee SN deduct on every trade, I will covers half and you the other half. Think of it as a 50/50 collaborative donation that keeps the SN rewards flowing to top stackers while you get CCs at a fair P2P rate.
As ~AGORA territory founder I can absorb part of the 30% sybil fee thanks to the 21% rebate flowing back to the territory. We have already included that rebate in the rate below, you won't find any hidden fees[1]. Buy any amount. Totals will be rounded up for amounts below 1,000 CCs.
HOW IT WORKS:
We close the deal within 24h in four simple steps:
- Reply below with the amount of CC you want to buy and specify the link to the post/comment you want me to zap.
- Send
{CCsWanted} × 1.065sats to my lightning addressAG@rizful.com. - I zap
{CCsWanted} ÷ 0.7CCs to your comment or post. - Done! You receive:
- the full
{CCsWanted} - a generous zap to your contents
- you contribute to the reward pool.
- the full
Need to see the numbers? Use this calculator for help, or look at the examples and references below.
EXAMPLE:
- You send 10,643 sats (10,000 × 1.065).
- I zap 14,286 CC to you:
- 70% → 10,000 CC to you.
- 21% → 3,000 CC to ~AGORA territory fund (my 21% rebate, already priced in).
- 9% → 1,286 CC rewards to top stackers
*.
- You receive the full 10,000 CC.
* The 50/50 split: the rewards pool gets 1,286 CC. My reduced rate covers roughly half of it, your ~6% premium over the 1:1 wallet rate covers the other half. Together we fund the pool :)
Quick reference:
| You want | You send (sats) | I zap (CCs) | 21% rebate | 9% reward pool |
| 1,000 CC | 1,064 | 1,429 | 300 | 129 |
| 5,000 CC | 5,321 | 7,143 | 1,500 | 643 |
| 10,000 CC | 10,643 | 14,286 | 3,000 | 1,286 |
TERMS: Gross rate 0.745 sats per CC zapped; fee already included: you receive 0.7 × zap, i.e. ~1.065 sats per received CC · Zaps delivered only to post and comments within the ~AGORA territory · P2P trust exchange, (no escrow) · Order book & feedback: https://4g0r4.github.io/cc-sat/ ↩
So it's still cheaper to buy CCs from SN.
Yes, I need to find a middle ground. There are extra benefits buying CCs from me:
Huh? Why would I care about the zap size on a comment where I buy CCs? What value does the increased discovery of that could-be-private conversation have for me? If anything, I'd want my financial transactions to be not public?
Not sure what the added value of this is? Rewards pool is assmilker functionality.
If I wanted to contribute to ~AGORA, shouldn't I just sell or buy something? Isn't that much more substantial?
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I am saying that the value proposition still isn't whole for the buy side, or the sell side.
Besides, it feels like people trying to arb the "CC market" are coming up with more ways to optimize but never being able to really make a real business case because everyone with ongoing interest values 1cc=1sat - only those that need to liquidate a lot of CCs quickly are able to do an offer, and there aren't that many of those.
The other day, Murch sent me 5k CCs "to distribute". Took me less than half a day to burn through it, with a wallet attached, so this was just for the territory/pool cost side of things. CCs evaporate if you're actively participating on SN. There's so much emphasis on profit that, if you look at the market, there not being any taker profit. It just doesn't make any sense.
PS: This obsession with CCs wastes so much energy!!! If ~AGORA did no CC business and just focused on trade of tangible items for sats, wouldn't that be a whole lot more long term constructive? Like... we're wasting so much time solving a problem that, according to the market, doesn't exist? Only opportunism exists?
Thanks, this is the most honest critique we've gotten so far.
Stackers can provide a link to another comment or post (outside this thread) if they prefer the zap (or why not downzap) to go somewhere else within the ~AGORA territory.
Buying CCs 1:1 from SN you don't contribute anything anywhere, so compared to that, it is added value for this offer.
Indeed it would be, but not everyone has or want anything to buy or sell. This offer gives stackers an alternative way to contribute to SN P2P marketplace.
You're right on the rate. At 0.745 gross stackers pay ~1.065 sats per CC received, and the SN wallet gives 1:1. Nobody should rationally buy CCs from me at a premium-to-parity. I won't pretend otherwise. The value I can offer is a P2P alternative to routing every trade through the wallet. I'm pricing that in as honestly as I can.
Your read matches mine on the current market structure. The only demand that actually exists is liquidation. Stackers holding CCs they don't want to reinvest, who want sats out before the credits sit idle. That's why the BID side (buying at 0.90) is driving some business.
Your read matches mine on market structure. The only demand that actually exists is liquidation, stackers holding CCs they don't want to reinvest, stackers who want sats out instead of credits sitting idle. That's why the BID side (buying at 0.90) is driving some business.
In the tangible goods side, the territory is not, and shouldn't be, defined by the CC trades. Exchanging CCs P2P is just another digital item in the marketplace, unique to SN, and that's why the AGORA can take care of it, offering best rates and environment to do so. Trading actual goods for sats is far more constructive. We set all the marketplace infrastructure, all documented and explained, even created a dedicated escrow service in case it's needed.
What else you think we could do to incentivize stackers to openly trade P2P?
The post to boost, within ~AGORA, is something cool. I think it's circumvent and complicated, but you do have a point there. A very small one, but a point nevertheless.
I do think that the benefits you explain are really, really small, especially since trading CCs P2P outside of liquidation probably means someone was buying those CCs.
I'll approach this from my personal situation, i.e. what is prohibiting me to list my buy and sell orders for physical goods or even digital things on ~AGORA:
So the problems for me are: having to post as anon and thus having no reputation - meaning you always have to offer at a discount or buy at premium, and for the buy side specifically, having no means of delivery.
If we can solve both these issues then we make agoric trading great. If we cannot, then the risk will not outweigh the rewards.
Just imagine having traded with a Revolut user on robosats or lnp2pbot or mostro. It's not just the bossman that we have to worry about. Breaches are by far the larger problem. Even if you weren't using revolut but your counterparty was, your trading pattern is now in the hands of... every asshole that knows how to open an onion site. ↩
I'm happy you can see some value on my offer :)
I'll continue the new topics about anon <-> reputation conflict and physical delivery in separate posts as your feedback sharpens the whole thing I've been researching foer a while now.
@AG, do you mean that if I send you 212 sats, you'll zap 286 CCs to this post?
Deal, sats sent.
Yes, your sats arrived. Deal confirmed.
Post zapped.
Until next :)
Legend, thank you