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I've been pondering this a lot lately. Is the fact that theft can more easily be reversed in a centralized, fiat system actually a plus?

I think it may be impossible to have "no trusted third party" without having "irreversible transactions."

But additionally, irreversibility is desirable in many online payment flows (eg. anything where the customer is purchasing something that is delivered digitally).

Probably, though, bitcoiners could stand to have a bit more nuance in their thinking about the use-cases where trusted third parties are desirable.

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111 sats \ 2 replies \ @MrGlass 4 Nov

Can you name 1 example of a situation where you would want to have a trusted third party, instead of 1 on 1 payment?

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  • when your elderly parents send a bunch of money to some scammer who tricked them.
  • when you order a product that needs to be shipped and it arrives not as advertised.
  • when you send money to the wrong address

I don't think any of these are important enough to sacrifice the censorship resistant properties of bitcoin, but I do think they are real situations that will lead users to pause before choosing to use Bitcoin.

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111 sats \ 0 replies \ @MrGlass 4 Nov

Point 1 is happening with fiat A LOT. So does not apply.
Same for point 2... not sure what an intermediate should add? A company doing this will be out of business pretty quick...
Point 3 idem... if i send money to a whrong bank account... i am at the mercy of the receiver.. no bank will reverse it...

This is based on EU by the way, we do not really use credit cards here

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a plus... for whom?

It's great for consumers, since it's a free insurance policy. Not great for the system overall (bc nothing is certain, hence e.g. chargebacks and transactions taking forever or subject to hold-ups/freezes) nor even consumers since they
a) ultimately have to carry the cost of this insurance
b) live/operate in a system with control/surveillance/permission everywhere.

But yeah, in the narrow example of "someone stole your money," it's great

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It's the classic example of diffuse costs (higher systemic costs for everyone due to inflation; living in a controlled/permissioned environment) vs acute benefits (you can visibly see and feel the benefit if you are the one who gets stolen from; you feel more acute security that even if you get stolen from it can be made right)

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The insurance is NOT free, it is backed by you, via governments in the end.
The fee is just delayed and deluted through inflation and taxes (and haircuts/bail-ins in the near future...)

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