I was wondering how mass adoption is going to happen if every non-custodial wallet has to do at least one transaction to open a channel? When the mempool is non-stop full and the fees are very high, will the future for the next newcomers be the use of custodial wallet? Or is there a solution coming to solve this?
Federated solutions will become popular for this reason in addition to privacy, improved security (for some), and other features. Examples include cashu https://cashu.space/ and Fedimint https://fedimint.org/.
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Can you explain how these solve the problem? To use a mint and create e-cash, you have to use lightning, so you still need to have an open channel and liquidity. You aren't increasing the number of sats available. What am I missing?
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283 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 5 May 2023
Good question. People are working on it:
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I didn't know about these solutions, thank you. It doesn't seem to solve the problem entirely, but it can greatly relieve the congestion of a mempool and reduce costs when we're going to board entire countries on Bitcoin standard
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ecash
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Solution is simple, there is a new payment technology very similar to Bitcoin and LN (it's backed by blockchain tech!!!) called CDBC or something like that, they say it will be very scalable and everybody will use it.
Well everybody, I mean, except criminals or those fringe lunatics that don't want to show their ID when paying
Hosted Channels
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Yes, I see a very good use case for HC. And I wrote here a scenario for people that want to implement it. https://github.com/Darth-Coin/Poncho-OBW-testing
Many see hosted channels as a "custodial solution" but IS NOT! Wrong point of view. If you run your own hosted channels, are those "custodials" ? No way!
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I agree with you said. HC can be solution.
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not your keys not your coins...
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you are fucking idiot that know nothing. Read before saying stupidities.
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ok darthidiot...
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This is custodial
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If I open a HC in OBW from my own node with Poncho, is that custodial to you? Learn before saying something stupid. People like you have no idea how HC works but they have "opinions"...
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not your keys not your coins...
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Your idiocy is disturbing...
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Most of newcomers will use of custodial LN wallets. And that's the proof why:
"Brian Armstrong, CEO of cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase, said that his company holds around 2 million bitcoin worth $39.9 billion as of September 30, 2022"
And all this above - regardless of endless warnings: "Not your keys, not your Bitcoin."
Don't expect that tilting at such windmills - is our biggest problem to solve and try to fixing it will be in any way successful. Of course will not - just due to human nature.
You can change human nature only a bit. And only by greed or by fear. Period. ;)
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I was also thinking that if the s/vB keep increasing and then also the price of BTC will keep increasing, then soon we are like on ethereum where the gas fees are just crazy high. Let's hope LN will take care of it.
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Like now, we'll all have several solutions for different uses cases.
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Burak seems to have a solution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8PeaQCfFaU . But I have almost no idea what is he talking about, except that somehow multiple people will own portion of 1 UTXO.
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Fedi is one possible solution to this as well
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Agree, this is why they call it "second party" as it's not non-custodial but it's custodied by people in your web of trust
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covenants!
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As I always said in all my guides: be prepared with a good amount of liquidity in your LN channels/nodes, for the time that will come when onchain will be used exclusively for opening/closing channels.
Only few people listened my advice and those who didn't listen, now they are crying...
Mass adoption is not bottleneck because of lack of users opening channels, or there are not enough simple apps for normies. Is because people are still not well educated how to use Bitcoin and what the fuck is Bitcoin. People still think is an "asset" or a speculation trading shit....
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Speaking of channels, I have a question and you probably have the answer. If I change my phone, does the re-import of my Blixt wallet necessarily imply a closing of the channels? I quickly read the doc about this, I wanted to know if there was a way to get around this? Thanks for your help.
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Blixt is a full LND node. That means the answer is no. I wrote many guides, FAQs for Blixt:
It's all explained there.
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I'm going to dig into it
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This. No need to open channels everyday, just have a couple of solid and with good liquidity ones and live with them. Use hosted channels for temp inbound liquidity increasing.
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Personally, with the tech we have now I don't see everyone ever being non-custodial with their payment funds, you can with your on chain savings, but the way LN is set up, I don't see why many would opt for non-custodial, what I hope is that with things like fedi/cashu/hosted channels we might see "local banks" pop up it could be a set of businesses that run it because they faciliate payments for their busienss
trust isn't always a bad thing, I remember growing up I could go to the corner store and buy something without cash and just put my name down in the book and the store owner knew everyone in the area so he would offer the service to people he knew and we settled up when you get paid and it worked for him
He moved stock, all he had to do was balance his float, granted inflation wasn't as high as it is today so it was easier to do this but under a bitcoin standard I think things like this can come back
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how does SN scale its LN interface
i mean if SN can do it
Others can
But i could be wrong
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You pay an opening fee, like XRP for example, that in a non custodial environment, you can always start custodial and migrate later . (I’m a custodial maximalist but that’s a possibility).
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How hard can it be to make a simple wallet? Someone sends you a satsoshi and you get it? why can't the custodian just show the pledge as an address? let it be seen!? that would work))) for small amounts.
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