After Nigel Farage debacle, I asked myself "Is it possible to live without a bank?" in a practical manner that is. I would personally says Yes but it is damn hard and expensive (e.g. buy VISA gift cards with sats and use it anywhere + cash). Is that where we are going? Sound off if you have an opinion...
533 sats \ 9 replies \ @03365d6a53 2 Jul 2023
use cash as much as you can, everywhere you can
it's a moral obligation
if we don't INSIST on cash (or lightning), we are all going to become slaves to the banking elite
fact.
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230 sats \ 3 replies \ @JesseJames OP 2 Jul 2023
Agreed 100%, the only issue is for example: power companies. One can't pay cash or BTC there (yet) one needs to use CC or send a check (aka. promissory paper-note from a bank) to settle your electricity bill. There are probably more utilities like that, we can't insist on a payment option that is not offered now, can we?
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344 sats \ 0 replies \ @03365d6a53 2 Jul 2023
for those who only accept payment via the banking oligopoly, the best you can do is file complaints on the basis of inclusivity.
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @xmrk2 2 Jul 2023
power companies? Not necessarily an issue: https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/pay-bills-with-bitcoin - Naturgy in Spain for example. OK, you probably meant in the US, but this shows there is some hope at least.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @f6287b82CC84bcbd 3 Jul 2023
Not 100% true.
In some countries there are services which let you pay utilities in bitcoin (Australia has living room of satoshi for example)
In other countries you can pay with cash at convenience stores for many things.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @quark 2 Jul 2023
People are starting to look at you in a bad way when you tell them to pay in cash. And cash is going to be banned eventually after they implement all the CBDCs.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 3 Jul 2023
Interesting. I have never been to the US but in South East Asia most of the time I can pay with cash. Inversely I don't think we can use credit cards on the food market (it wouldn't even come up in my mind to use it there).
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11 sats \ 1 reply \ @xmrk2 2 Jul 2023
well, and what if I can receive a part of my salary on a special "restaurant" debit card, and I do not pay income tax for this part of salary?
So my choices are:
- pay less tax, deprive the state of some money, but forced to pay by card
- pay in cash (even in restaurants) but only after this money is taxed by income tax
Perhaps such "restaurant" debit card can be seen as proto-CBDC - it is already limited, I can only spend it in restaurants.
Wonder if real CBDCs will be similarly incentivised. Overlords can then say they are not banning cash, they would never think about doing it. Yet everybody will prefer CBDCs because of those incentives, so in a year or two, the overlords will say how nobody except criminals uses cash, let's ban it.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @badabing 2 Jul 2023
Interesting observation.
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @lambinash37 2 Jul 2023
Cash is fiat, fiat=bad, very bad.
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212 sats \ 6 replies \ @super_testnet 2 Jul 2023
I use visa gift cards for almost everything and I don't find it expensive (there is no activation fee with thebitcoincompany.com) but it is hard.
Also, I don't think it counts as living without a bank. Every visa gift card you buy is essentially another bank account. It's an anonymous one, but it's still a bank account.
If you're like me and you live by endlessly buying visa gift cards, you're not living without banks...you've got more bank accounts than almost anyone else.
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32 sats \ 2 replies \ @ursuscamp 3 Jul 2023
Sounds like a real pain to remember how much is left on a bunch of cards. Do you have some system?
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3 sats \ 0 replies \ @JesseJames OP 3 Jul 2023
I agree with that, I personally don't have a system. Some cards have a website to check and some just old skool 1-800-how-much-cash-do-I-have-left...
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @franzap 3 Jul 2023
True. Would be nice if the bitcoin co could offer an API for this
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @JesseJames OP 2 Jul 2023
100% "... you've got more bank accounts then almost anyone else..." Touche, and not a single one is in your name :-) Yeah, that's what I meant. If one cannot open bank account like we have seen in Nigel's case use an anonymous one the way you described with the bitcoin company dot com (thanks for tip BTW, this is a new one for me). Be "un-freezable" because you know that they will go first after your bank, just ask Canadian trucker... I realize banks will not disappear tomorrow, too many "banksters" are involved but I'm trying to reduce my footprint and be less dependent on them. In the "developed" countries like US/UK etc. it seems like the got us by the ballz...lol. Hope we can change that.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @franzap 2 Jul 2023
How are gift cards bank accounts? Maybe they simply use someone else's
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @super_testnet 2 Jul 2023
I think you just answered your own question
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171 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 2 Jul 2023
There are some interesting possibilities in the shadow banking sector but that carries significant risk and no small amount of trust on the part of clients.
If you want access to the full range of regulated banking services you have to go through the full range of banking regulations I’m afraid.
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22 sats \ 1 reply \ @037447d9ca 2 Jul 2023
When I first knew about bitcoin, after 3 days of no sleep falling into the rabbit hole, the next thing I did was to close my bank account. No regrets.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @purpurato 2 Jul 2023
This sounds so absurd I tend to believe it is true.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Zepasta 2 Jul 2023
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @02fa90fd41 3 Jul 2023
That gap is slowly closing tho. Some websites now accept bitcoin, some companies now pay in bitcoin ... soon bills paid by bitcoin will be a thing (I hope).
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satogirl 4 Jul 2023
I am able to live without a bank as much as I can. Cash is the best alternative to choose in my country so far, because the banking and financial systems aren't 100% developed yet, with lots of people earning a living in the underground economy. Commerce and exchange by individual economic agents (not companies or government) are done, in most cases, using cash or through means like digital wallets from telecommunications companies such as Tigo or Claro.
I do have a bank account, but I only use my card when I need to purchase stuff online, stuff from overseas which I can't find where I live.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 3 Jul 2023
Im an example :) 2y, no problem
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Tsampa 3 Jul 2023
🟠🟣⚡️📖🫡 🐐 Yes, we can.. We Humans lived centuries without banks. We developed everything Possible for the conveniences of ourself. But when the Innovations of Us are being used for making profits/Self-Interest. we are becoming slave, 9-5 slave.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin 3 Jul 2023
When I get paid in fiat, I won't buy bitcoin just to then turn around ad spend in bitcoin.
It's the same thing if I get paid in bitcoin. I won't "cash out" into fiat, and then spend in fiat if I am able to just spend in bitcoin. Thanks to services that I've found, I'm able to essentially spend nearly all my bitcoin income in bitcoin and only need to cash out ... either small amounts, or for a few specific payments (e.g., rent). Well, that's if you count BitRefill, and The Bitcoin Company as "spending in bitcoin". Technically, those are exchange methods that perform the cash out into fiat for me, and then pay the merchant/vendor in fiat. So those aren't methods that perpetuate a circular economy.
At a restaurant I frequent there is a server who is familiar with bitcoin, as this person uses it for cross-border remittance. I find it sad that I cannot pay the restaurant in bitcoin, and they use that bitcoin when paying this employee. That would be an ideal "closed loop" / "circular bitcoin economy" transaction.
We're barely further along in that area than a decade ago, at least in the U.S.
But having a bank lets me move fiat into bitcoin easier. Now that Strike no longer works with my bank debit card, I guess I will have to try direct deposit into my Strike account for some of my fiat income (ADP supposedly will allow this, we'll see).
That too is sad, for me, to see. I have fiat income, and I know there is someone with bitcoin needing fiat who would be willing to do a trade, locally, in cash. I'ld much prefer that, but every time I've tried to do such a P2P trade it's been only infrequently that a trade has occurred. I'll usually need to close the untaken P2P offer and re-deposit the cash in order to do a bank transfer to purchase from a centralized exchange.
So essentially, what I'm saying is that I would have a hard time going entirely without a bank but there are things I can do to help try and support a circular economy (by seeking ways to spend in bitcoin) and that increase in activity essentially adds to the network effect and that makes the circular economy easier to participate in for a larger footprint of the bitcoin user base. It is then, that choosing to go bankless can become a reality.
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12 sats \ 1 reply \ @JoeNakamoto 2 Jul 2023
Annoying comment: yeah of course it is. Just ask the billions of people who are unbanked!
But on a personal note you can live without a bank. Use p2p trades for cash, bitcoin friendly places and Bitrefill + the bitcoin company.
It’s not convenient but I get a kick out of it!
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @f6287b82CC84bcbd 3 Jul 2023
btcmap.org for also finding out bitcoin merchants too so you don't need to do p2p cash.
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11 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma 2 Jul 2023
A lot of nuance required to answer that question. Namely, the difference in jurisdictions; where are you trying to live? What are you trying to buy / pay for? What kind of lifestyle are you trying to live out?
I would say it’s definitely harder to live without a bank in the so called “developed” countries. But many places around the world just run on cash, as many people are unbanked.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @nullama 3 Jul 2023
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/09/the-worlds-unbanked-in-6-charts/
Of course it is possible.
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11 sats \ 0 replies \ @locomancell 4 Jul 2023
I think the question would rather be will it be possible to live without #BTC?
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2 sats \ 2 replies \ @franzap 2 Jul 2023
I don't have a bank account. Cash, gift cards, bitcoin and in extreme cases ask for family/friends to use their accounts.
It depends where you live. In my country cash is almost everywhere.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @john_doe 3 Jul 2023
I am curious, may we know what is your country?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @franzap 3 Jul 2023
Argentina
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @nymatix 2 Jul 2023
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @criptopanas 2 Jul 2023
It depend on where you live.
In many countries, a big % of the population is unbanked.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @waddytaft 3 Jul 2023
No. Still we need a bank account for transactions with crypto, not all but some need it.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @02fa90fd41 3 Jul 2023
I know a guy (very rich) who will pay things for you and he acceps sats as payments. Whenever we go to the bar to buy drinks, we all send sats to him and he pays.
So erm.. suggy BTCH daddy is the way
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joshuawhe 3 Jul 2023
It is completely unfair that Nigel should not be allowed to have a bank account just because he is anti-woke
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joshuawhe 3 Jul 2023
Yes, just keep all your money in a stablecoin such as Tether, and get a debit card, the question is will they give him a debit card?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @2bithits 3 Jul 2023
There are some living on a bitcoin standard. Would be kinda inconvenient, but its getting easier.
Also, a lot would depend on where you live. The ideal would be having a local bitcoin community selling things you need.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joseph_ramo 3 Jul 2023
Nope
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joseph_ramo 3 Jul 2023
No
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @022b497c76 3 Jul 2023
29% of people in the developing world do, and that's an example of the difficulty more than Nigel's spat.
5.4% are unbanked in the US.
It's not easy, but less privileged people can.
PS. I can't imagine Farago hasn't been swamped with offers from others, unless there's a very good reason.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo 2 Jul 2023
Yes, but you will live a much less convenient and disadvantaged life.
Having no bank account is one thing, you can use cash still in most places.
However, without a bank you have very limited access to credit/lending services unless you have a wealthy friend or are willing to use predatory companies requiring collateral and much higher interest/fees. This means you might not be able to acquire property, grow a business, obtain reliable transportation, etc.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @notgeld 2 Jul 2023
In most situations, no.
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