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379 sats \ 6 replies \ @k00b 21 Sep 2023 \ parent \ on: The Origins of Value 4 Value as Far as I Can Tell bitcoin
I feel a similar ambivalence toward the donation aspect of value for value. It’s part of why I have a hard time bounding SN to that context.
In part, SN has this donation dimension, but it feels like there are other dimensions that I’m yet to articulate.
It's a really interesting problem and runs pretty deep, imo. People have these different kinds of machinery in their heads about this stuff. The example I like is that if a friend asks you to help her move, and you do, and then she tries to pay you cash afterward, you will probably feel insulted: you did the labor as part of your "friendship contract" and you were probably even kind of glad to do it; and the "obligation" your friend assumes is to buy you beer and pizza, and to return the favor -- or some comparable favor -- some other day. This is very deep, neurologically, in how social primates work.
But for a whole other class of interaction, and transaction, we have this glorious thing called money, which is just amazing that it can even work as a concept, and it encodes how much we value things, so you give me a pizza and I give you money, and it's amazing. But it taps into a very different vibe.
And so how do those things interact in a community? And esp one like SN? My sense is that even though there's money at the heart of it, it's this real human sociality that is the key, and how can "real" money help that to flourish, and how can they interact?
There's like 5 PhD theses in this project you're building. Maybe more. Makes me think that that's an area of opportunity, to tap into that expertise / labor. Hmmm.
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if a friend asks you to help her move, and you do, and then she tries to pay you cash afterward
She is me lol. I'm aware of the problems with this enough that I'll usually disguise it as a dinner or drinks or something, ie I know people actually do these things to accumulate social capital (even if they aren't conscious of it) ... my reciprocation drive is so high though I need to literally spend it down.
There's like 5 PhD theses in this project you're building. Maybe more. Makes me think that that's an area of opportunity, to tap into that expertise / labor. Hmmm.
If you have any ideas about how I'd begin to do that, I'd be very interested.
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my reciprocation drive is so high though I need to literally spend it down.
Ha! Well, to give you a tiny bit of psychotherapy, as long as the favor is freely given, doing a favor for someone you care about really is a gift to both parties. The relationship is enhanced by it. Both of you become closer as a result. That's a hard thing to internalize, I know (I'm kind of like you in my aversion to being socially indebted) but it really is true. That truth, plus the traditional potlatch of pizza + beer, is enough.
If you have any ideas about how I'd begin to do that, I'd be very interested.
I am about to hire an economist who's a very creative thinker. I'll discuss with him, I'm sure he'll have a bunch of ways to make this concrete. Will get back to you!
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One difference I came up with after stewing a bit is that SN feels more like information trading than information broadcasting ... it's more personal and the payment aspect has the potential to enhance rapport.
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I like that metaphor: it's the difference between being at a lecture (on the good end) or a wedding and there's some dude sitting across from you droning on and on (on the bad end); and being in an actual conversation. There's value in getting broadcast at, but it's a very different kind of value.
Thought experiment of two alternate-reality SN variants:
- a SN that is a really kick-ass place to go to download info about events, like a really good information depot.
- a SN as a place where really good / rich / interesting conversations happen about those events.
It seems like if you were hell-bent on one of these cases, you'd do different things. I don't know what the differences would be, but the two realities seem distinct enough to warrant different approaches, though I couldn't back up that intuition right now.
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There's also the bystander effect acting in the case of a broadcast. "I don't need to pay because someone else will." ... This effect may grow as SN does and it just isn't that significant yet.
It seems like if you were hell-bent on one of these cases, you'd do different things.
Off the top of my recently caffeinated head ...
download info about events
I think this looks more like a video game.
interesting conversations happen about those events
And this looks more like an online community.
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