The ZEUS v0.8.0 - LN Node in your Pocket 📱⚡️ \ stacker news ~bitcoin

The ZEUS v0.8.0 - LN Node in your Pocket 📱⚡️

8169 sats \ 59 comments \ @Natalia 28 Oct 2023 bitcoin

I tested ZEUS v0.8.0 yesterday: https://blog.zeusln.com/zeus-v0-8-0-open-beta/ as there isn't such a thing as the BEST LN wallet—only a better tool in different situations, so I want to understand what are the right use cases for it.

ZEUS v0.8.0

Advantages

Easy setup: download and almost good to go - it might take some time to syn
No need to figure out all the inbound and outbound liquidity
Users own their KEY!
With a Self-custodial lightning addresses
LSP offers more privacy as it doesn't expose the node's public key

Downsides

There are quite some fees, but I guess you pay for the convenience.

a. I did a few tests sending funds to the LN address during the syn process, which changed me by 50%, and here is the fee.

b. To redeem the zaps or receive payments, you then need to enable the LSP, and here is the setup fee, which is quite high, but then you only need to pay for the normal network fee once the channel is up and running.

Here are the use cases I've found so far:

For those who want to level up from the custodial LN wallets but do not ( want to ) run a node or have no time to learn about all the inbound and outbound liquidity
For current node runners who don't want to expose their node public key and don't want to use custodial LN wallets
Using the Self-custodial lightning addresses in Nostr or generally receiving tips in websites; However, it only makes sense if you are getting zapped quite a significant amount.
A good option for restaurants or cafes to level up from WOS or Blink, but the coming up non-custodial version of Blink may be better? as many essential features for running restaurants or cafes are still missing in it atm.

And in my case, as a nomad, but I do have a home node at my base, and I'm using Blixt wallet as a backup, so I'm trying to understand what other fun with the ZEUS LN that I possibly missed? 👀

meme from @DarthCoin

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411 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Oct 2023

I'm trying to understand what other fun with the ZEUS LN that I possibly missed?

I did a test between Zeus and Blixt. Both are LND nodes. Are fully interoperable.

created a new node in Zeus
open a channel
save the SCB into a .bin file
fully shutdown Zeus
start Blixt (new instance)
select recover wallet
insert seed + scb .bin file
wait to sync and close channels
funds recovered onchain perfectly

DO NOT OPEN BOTH IN THE SAME TIME! Maybe I will do a test on the way around Blixt —>Zeus but should work just fine.

Later I will try another test, "recovering" a dead Umbrel node (LND) into Zeus, with the SCB data. It should work too.

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

I just found a fun use for it

create a new node in Zeus
use it to register a new account in SN
do the fun that you shared before

😂😂😂

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

And for login on SN you don't even need to open channels. secret trick

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 28 Oct 2023

oh, fun hack! using it for recovery, let me do a test too.

113 sats \ 0 replies \ @deletedd 28 Oct 2023

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20 sats \ 2 replies \ @sebastix 28 Oct 2023

I'm using Zeus since I'm running my own node for a couple of years now. Haven't read the blogpost yet, but is it possible to add a-node-on-my-phone besides my current node config?

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @Natalia OP 28 Oct 2023

yes, click setting then hit the top right +, then you can add different node, but you need to upgrade the APP so to test the new feature.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @sebastix 29 Oct 2023

Yes I get it, neat upgrade of Zeus ⚡️

20 sats \ 10 replies \ @fixthemoneyfixtheworld 28 Oct 2023

How much space on the phone is required to run the node?

41 sats \ 9 replies \ @deletedd 28 Oct 2023

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10 sats \ 8 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Oct 2023

is not the neutrino taking much space, but the LN graph. In time will be bigger.

10 sats \ 7 replies \ @Natalia OP 28 Oct 2023

interesting 👀 I'm a bit curious how it works under the hood, like I know how to use them, but I don't quite understand how the devs make it happend - a node in your pocket is quite wild hahha

271 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 28 Oct 2023

Neutrino (BIP157) is the service that is syncing the block headers. That is a small part of data and also quite private. You can connect to the LSP bitcoin node or any other bitcoin node (even random) that is providing blocks through neutrino.

From there, the LND node, linked to these blocks, is downloading and syncing the LN graph (the map of all public nodes and channels) from your LN peers you are connected.

In Zeus case I don't know exactly how is syncing this LN graph, but in Blixt case I know that they setup a server node that is providing a quicker and compressed copy of the LN graph that you, the user, download faster when you open the app and you are ready to transact over LN faster with a cleaned up map of zombie channels. In the past was the issue that Blixt mobile nodes, because of low latency connection were downloading a wrong map with a lot of zombie channels and their payment were failing a lot because of that. Now is working really nice. In the future could be better protocols to getting faster this initial sync at opening the app.

People using these mobile nodes MUST remember that if you do not have a good internet connection this sync could fail a lot, so your wallet. so have patience at least when you open the app and also try to open it almost every day to have a quicker update and better routes.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @mixmaster 29 Oct 2023

Zeus can do both, load LN gossip data from peers in p2p network (default behaviour, decentralized but slower) or from OLYMPUS (Zeus LSP). To load gossip data from OLYMPUS you need to enable "Express Graph Sync" in Embedded Node settings. Express Graph Sync only fetches the difference since last time, so there shouldn't be much overhead.

131 sats \ 4 replies \ @TheWildHustle 29 Oct 2023

Wild indeed,

Just heard BTC sessions say he created a seed with cold card used BIP85 to derive child seeds, one of which he used for the mutiny (node in browser).

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @aoeu 29 Oct 2023

Interesting! Do you remember what video or podcast?

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheWildHustle 29 Oct 2023

It was his reason for being bullish in the last "Why are we Bullish"

And on top of that, Portland Hodl is bullish because of the seed vaults that he can put his child seeds in....

We're actually ridiculously early

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

thanks!

We're actually ridiculously early

yes, and so happy being early when others are still running around like a chicken without its head 😂

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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

I found this https://primal.net/e/note1rhnn8rjg352q48tye6r9f6lncqaegnjnajnvza2yela6694cm0jse68ala

But I'm happy using Alby for nostr atm, I like self-sovereign, but not everything is worth the same level of security, but nice to see what the options are out there tho!

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @moel 29 Oct 2023

So we now have 3 apps in the ecosystem that allow you to run a Neutrino Lightning node (BIP157) in your pocket 😃

phoenix
Breez
Zeus
Blixt (coming soon)

53 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Phoenix is not using neutrino. Blixt is not "coming soon", is already here with more advanced features.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @justBrian 29 Oct 2023

Is there any reason i would want a private channel open with my lightning node with the LSP mobile node ?

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Being a mobile node it doesn't make sense to have public channels. You do NOT route. You use those private channels only for your own txs.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justBrian 29 Oct 2023

Ya but what abt a private channel 🤙

10 sats \ 15 replies \ @pow 29 Oct 2023

Same as Phoenix Wallet

10 sats \ 14 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

It is not the same, Phoenix Wallet has more fee and less features, but I stopped using Phoenix after I found out about Blixt - I like having more control.

120 sats \ 13 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

People saying that Phoenix has expensive fees don't know how to use it properly.

Will tell you a trick:

first time you start with Phoenix, deposit a larger amount. Let's say 1-2M sats, enough to cover your future spending.
if you do not want to use all those sats, swap out a % of them but NOT all of them. Always leave at least 10% in that channel. In this way you avoid closing the channel and pay more fees again.
if you start with a small deposit let's say 50k sats, you pay 3-5k sats in fees to open the channel. Then you deposit another 50k and again pay a fee because even that Phoenix is using the new LN feature to expand the size of the channel wititout closing it, it still involve oncha:n fees. It is all explained in Phoenix faq page.

Conclusion: to avoid lots of fees, start with a larger channel opening and never closing it. This simple rule is valid for all LN nodes.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @wealthcrumb 4 Apr

Wish I knew this before

0 sats \ 11 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

will @darthcoin write about more tricks on how to use different wallets? or how do you arrange them for public or private stuff? There are many basic tutorials out there, but showing how to use each better in what situation isn't much 👀

131 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

I updated this guide about Private LN nodes with including Zeus node (also with link to your post on SN) and also Phoenix tricks.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

This article was posted and registered OP_RETURN at block height #775009 Updated 29 October 2023

how did you do this?

210 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

With OP_Return Bot made by @benthecarman.

insert the link or message you want to register in a block
pay the invoice over LN
wait for the block to be confirmed and done, your message is registered forever in history.

You can do it also without the bot but is more complicated and you need a specialized wallet app.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

OMG, so cool, this was exactly what I learned about Bitcoin when I first heard about it.

https://mempool.space/tx/3080057b3db58291a95982ca036f11fc09baacfd10772a05f22444d64efd47bb

seems from two Turks here https://mempool.space/tx/ae00238c57f27f94b7410e7b79bb4208762cbaa3f07fd2eacd4178fd3f94f421

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100 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Many tricks are already in my guides. Also I wrote the whole documentation for Blixt and OBW The following guides could be used now very easily with Zeus too. Zeus and Blixt are brothers now.

Blixt guides - with tons of scenarios
Blixt FAQ - even more tricks

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

Guess I need to reread some of them.

Zeus and Blixt are brothers now.

I think Blixt is for more advanced users, Zeus is more for people with less LN knowledge or maybe being lazy and want something quick.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Indeed, in many of my guides I inserted some "gems".

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

I like hunting gems 🤣

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Start playing with Zeus. Is also advanced due to the fact that you can manage any channels you want. Zeus and Blixt ard now really similar in features. Yes, Zeus doesn't have so many items in settings like Blixt but those are mord for really advanced users and not really necessary for regular users.

You will discover a real powerful mobile node in Zeus.

Having Zeus and Blixt on your phone shows that you are an advanced LN user. Powerful.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

it's so wild that we are playing with phone nodes now, but many normies are still trying to open a bank account!

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10 sats \ 4 replies \ @_b_o_n_e_s_ 28 Oct 2023

For current node runners who don't want to expose their node public key and don't want to use custodial LN wallets

can you please expand on this point? what do you mean, it sound like you use some combo of your own node (at home not the one in phone) and the Zeus one (in the phone)

42 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Your Zeus node is behind Olympus LSP. All payments received will use route hints that will see as last hop the Olympus pubkey (not your private Zeus node).

You can still open channels with any other publuc node if you want.

There is an option in Zeus to hide/show the route hints.

Will be interesting to see in the future an option to request an invoice with MPP by default.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @_b_o_n_e_s_ 29 Oct 2023

Ah I see. I think?

So what your saying is: have your own private lightning node with one set of channels for one set of payments.

Then have your Zeus node for another set of payments where you don't care when public key is revealed, because its not yours.

I was thinking for a moment it meant, connect the two nodes somehow by opening channel to Zeus or something.

500 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

I would recommend also to open various private channels with your new Zeus node. Apart from Olympus by Zeus (by default LSP) you could open 2-3 more other channels with good nodes (see here some recomendations) and activate MPP in your Zeus.

That means all your payments will go through all channels available, spreading the amount in smaller parts and taking various routes.

This technique will not only help you find better routes and cheaper, but also keeping a good balance into your channels and improve your privacy.

500 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Here I wrote more scenarios about how to use these private LN nodes as a merchant. https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/operating-with-ln-as-a-merchant

More scenarios that you can apply with Zeus node here https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/bitcoin-and-privacy

10 sats \ 7 replies \ @Natalia OP 28 Oct 2023

also I don't understand is what are the built-in nostr keys there for?

141 sats \ 4 replies \ @deletedd 28 Oct 2023

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20 sats \ 3 replies \ @Natalia OP 28 Oct 2023

Receiving Zap notifications via Nostr DM is quite cool, but the fee is not so cool 😂 Imagine that when people zap you 100-200 sats, then you pay half as the fee!

Also zapping range is mostly around 21- 1000 sats in Nostr atm, I wonder why they set that fee range.

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @deletedd 28 Oct 2023

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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @tolot 29 Oct 2023

Agree.

Off course the maker sets the price, so nothing to say about the market dinamycs.

However If I were in the shoes of someone that wants to use that solution instead of, let's say, WoS, I would really ask myself:

Why do I have to pay a fee so high for something that I can achieve freely with WoS and then, when the amount in my WoS is big enough just swap to onchain?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 28 Oct 2023

the smart move would be to lower the fee to onboard more users in this stage, I mean, it's a free market in the Bitcoin world haha; why not attract more loyal users and it's also a good marketing for them - imaging more people using the LN address with Zeus.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 28 Oct 2023

I haven't tried, but isn't it for a contact list?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia OP 28 Oct 2023

weekend fun for you then!

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

Fun fact: did you know that with Zeus you can generate AMP invoices? But keep in mind that for now, only LND nodes can support paying these AMP static invoices. This can be useful for small merchants using Zeus node, for repetitive fix amount invoices.

Atomic Multi-path Payments (AMP) are a type of Lightning invoices that can be paid multiple times.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

Fun fact: did you know that with Zeus you can generate AMP invoices?

but isn't default in Umbrel node? 🤔 and yes, I did saw that option.

I also discovered a new feature in Zeus last night, in each transaction it shows the path, with details like which node forwarded your sats and how much sats they charged, so cool.

PS: do you know how the route hint works? just saw this one.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

but isn't default in Umbrel node?

No, you need to add a line in lnd.conf to support AMP

Try also keysend. Is like those secret messages over SN 😂😂

PS: do you know how the route hint works? just saw this one.

route hints are like secret indications to the payer node to find the proper route to your private node (that is behind a LSP node)

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Natalia OP 29 Oct 2023

what I did in Umbrel node was go to Lightning Node - advanced setting - routing, then enable the AMP.

route hints are like secret indications to the payer node to find the proper route to your private node (that is behind a LSP node)

Just tried and yes, it says you need to enable the LSP, so it can be a lazy way of opening a channel with the payer directly? 😂

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 29 Oct 2023

In a payment your LSP is the last hop in that route hints. The LSP knows your nodeID and fw the payment to you through the private channel you have with. The LSP could be any other public node you are connected to.