Summarising as the gf keeps telling me to take my head out my phone😝. More to follow in a future post πŸ€™πŸΌ

Usage as cash is not as high as the Zonte/Strike gang would have you believe, but consciousness is increasing, especially around the surf zone.
Usage as savings tech is certainly growing, albeit from a zero base, and education continues, although sporadically.
Vast majority of transactions are gueros visiting (and overpaying at) 'Bitcoin Disney land', but educated / internationally minded locals seem to get it and although early, it's seen as something of a 'paso a paso' sorta thing.
It doesn't look like anything directional will change any time soon at least (Bukele just won another term, he's v popular, even tho many calls him a 'bastard' - lovingly. His track record of reducing crime is a MASSIVE positive theme on the ground, even though everyone agrees it's been VERY heavy handed).
Some (DEFINITELY not all, far from it, more like a few) businesses around Zonte accept it, and about 3-5% of businesses in Zonte's state, La Libertad, accept it, but failed transactions are reasonably common (Lightning channel management is still nascent and iffy).
The national big supermarket accepts it, but the cashier told me it's only about 2% of local purchases, and according to her, as high as 10% of purchases made by estranjeros (even tho she seemed to think it was kinda gimmicky). Those stats seemed high to me - the beach club I went to yesterday a few miles from Zonte said they couldn't remember more than 5 transactions last year and said 'no-one really uses it'.
So far everyone who HAS accepted it has been using IbexPay (and possibly instantly converting to dollars, which is the common currency here, but not certain about if/whether they're holding BTC at all).
Critically , since it's deemed to be MONEY here, people seem to like it as a way to get cash from friends and family in places like the USA, as it's 0 tax and 0 commission too, so long as you're using the national Bitcoin app (Chivo). It's seen by those who know anything about it as the most efficient way to perform tax/commission free remittances.
TLDR, 'store of value' consciousness is early but growing in recognition, with small, sporadic, but active education efforts ( mainly localised to one 'county', La Libertad), but still less than I had hoped. Remittances seems to be a strong use case, so long as the gov (tax) and wallet providers (commission) don't try to stick their fingers in the pie, like the twonks in the UK gov do πŸ–•πŸ».
Was somewhat disappointed at the start, maybe the whole thing is a little overpromoted. The smartest local I spoke to said the main value of the whole 'Bitcoin project' is that it 'got the attention of the world to our little country'.
Medium of exchange is still a long way off, despite the over-promotion by worshippers of Jack Mallers. It seems we have a mountain to climb yet, and we're still barely in the foothills
πŸ«ΆπŸ»πŸ€™πŸΌ Peace, love, and hail Satoshi πŸ€—πŸ˜Ž
Lightning Network looks like a ugly crocodile furious for most of us, non techie people... We are so far from bitcoin mass adoption, and LN just can't help it at all, unfortunately!? Or maybe I don't know and am wrong... What do you think?
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I hope LN can grow to be a viable solution, but it's def not there yet. A bigger concern for me is - the vast majority of people just don't care or even think about monetary technology. It's like that old joke with the fish asking 'how is the water today?' and the other fish replying 'what water?' - most people don't even think to question the money, they think it's something fixed like gravity or the kilogram, so it's very hard to get people to realise it's even something worth thinking about...
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Right. I see this also here in EuropeπŸ€” πŸ™ˆ Apropos about LN, how did you create that nice email address or LN address, whatever it is, CasaDeSatoshi@stacker.news?! And how do you use it? Thanks.
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Not sure tbh, maybe it's an old feature? I'm guessing it was auto allocated when I made this profile? I've never logged in to any email server under that address.
Casa Satoshi is my business in San Cris, Chiapas. You can find us on Instagram if you wanna see more about who we are and what we're about πŸ€—
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I've cheched my profile and I got also a nice but useless email address teodor@stacker.news... I don't understand why these devs are creating such useless email address... πŸ™ˆ
I tried to send emails but it doesn't work, but it has to be good for some reason... πŸ€”
I will check your business on insta! :)
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It looks like an email address, but it's a lightning address. You can use it to receive sats.
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I want to send sats from my address teodor@stacker.news to your address clr@stacker.news :))
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Right, but still nothing happens with it if you don't know the way to use it for sending sats... If you know tell me how, then give me your address and I will send you some sats! :)
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I ve tested email, so it doesn't work, so I don't get it what's good for...?! πŸ€” πŸ™ˆ
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There, I sent you ten sats from my own wallet, you should see a notification, and you never had to give me an invoice.
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It's a Lightning address. You send money there.
Instead of doing the whole invoice thing, just write the address and how many sats you want to send (of course this has to be done from a Lightning wallet) and the wallet linked to that address will receive the sats
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I am trying to send you back sats, but nothing works in this mess... Looks like LN is for people who have time to learn abracadabra techie rules, man... πŸ€” πŸ€• πŸ™ˆ
Sorry, but I give up trying to use these nonsense, but will continue to read, comment, and push the spark found on the left side of these comments! Of course, when I like the text.
Thanks for trying to help me with this techie mess. All the best!
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Try using Breez, it's non-custodial and it simply works. That's the wallet I sent you the sats from.
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I've installed Breez then tried to move some sats from here to the wallet. The ugly surprise, the fee is the same with the amount to be moved, so I want to receive 3000 sats and the fee is 2926 sats... πŸ€” πŸ€• πŸ™ˆ
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Channel opening fees, they cost whatever the mainchain fees are, imagine that you move your Bitcoin to a locker where it can not interact with other lockers.
It's a little complicated to tell you the truth.
If you don't mind having your sats on LN custodied by someone else, download Wallot of Satoshi or Speed, the are custodial but you won't need to do the whole opening channel thing.
Breez. OK, let me try. I tried bitcoiLi, but it keeps saying me about a kind of invoice, which is stupid, I don't need any invoice...
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Lightning works via invoices, but some wallets (most of them actually) support LN addresses, in the case of Breez, you simply write the LN Address as if it were an invoice and that's it.
Awesome πŸ€—πŸ€™πŸΌπŸ˜‹πŸ˜ŽπŸ«‘
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Just as with anything, first impressions are VERY important.
Collectively, we kinda botched it by pushing Lightning and Bitcoin as a medium of exchange before it was ready. Then, the normies try using it, payments fail.... issues ensue, and we lost our "first impression" power.
This is a really big problem. It is stunting Bitcoin adoption overall. And it has given more ammunition to the haters who continue to hail Lightning as a total failure (i.e. the big bocker fools still pushing BCH).
If Lightning had worked without any issues in El Salvador, Bitcoin would have likely spread across the country like wildfire over the past few years. Instead, it's stagnant... too many negative first impressions.
I'm not a proponent of BCH, I own zero. But this is exactly what they have been saying was going to happen since the block wars. I think they are wrong overall, but they do make some good points and I would like hear more comments from prominent Bitcoiners about this issue. I know in time it will work itself out, with more development and education. But I'm afraid we could be shooting ourselves in the foot trying to push adoption before the tech is ready.
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Bitcoin is a force of nature. Not a product launch. It does not care if it makes a bad first impression. Many people threw the baby out with the bath water lumping Bitcoin with shitcoin rug pulls, terrible UI experiences with Lightning rollouts, and in El Salvador specifically, the Chivo wallet got hacked. So yeah, the initial impression was poorly presented. Meanwhile...Tick tock, next blockβ„’. They will come back around, eventually.
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Yea, I completely agree.
Still... I personally get excited by what it can do for people as a medium-of-exchange. And I don't like what I'm seeing in this regard, recently.
I know we have to resist the urge to move fast and break things. Bitcoin shouldn't be treated like a startup tech company. But that doesn't mean I don't still get that urge. I'm a developer, so it's in my nature.
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207 sats \ 2 replies \ @clr 14 Feb
I disagree. Without adoption, the tech will never be ready. The tech will only improve when there are hiccups. On one hand you appear to agree with BCH proponents on the need for adoption, while on the other hand you appear to wish for slower adoption because the tech is not ready. BCH does not solve the blockchain trilemma; it just increases scalability on the base layer at the expense of decentralization.
Besides, Lightning is working quite well, at least for me. Is it perfect and always smooth? Of course not. When I was a child, credit cards were accepted manually (5-10 minutes per transaction). Then, the first online terminals for shops began to appear. 1 out of 8 transactions would fail in the beginning. So what?
IMO, the main problem that Bitcoin has at the moment is not the tech. It is that it is so revolutionary that it's outside the Overton window and it is not 'approved' by the powers that be. Most people are hesitant about it or hostile towards it because of that fact. Be patient. It's OK if some merchants start accepting bitcoin and then give up. I also wish everything would happen faster, but it is what it is.
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I'm old enough to remember when we had to do this
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And it wasn't just what is shown on the video. It was also checking that the customer's card number wasn't on the blacklist, making a phone call to the authorization center to get an auth number, filling in the form by hand with the amount, date... And at the end of the day, compiling all the forms from all the sales, adding them up on a special form, putting everything in a special envelope and mailing it or handing it over in person at the bank branch for processing.
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Agreed on all points. Would love to hear more grownup debate and analysis on this instead of the usual shilling and name calling πŸ˜‹
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Thank you for this. Really helpful and honest update. Have you moved to ES from the UK?
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I actually have a hostel / BnB / Bar / Terrazza in San CristΓ³bal, Chiapas, and am trying to grow a tech and Bitcoin community there... Am in ES on vacation πŸ˜‹
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(I've been in Mexico for a couple of years now, I decided to build a second base. After all the COVID/Brexit shenanigans I felt I needed a plan B, as it seems likely things will continue in the direction they're going in, which is not something I'm too excited about)
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Good for you. I hope you build something worthwhile there. All the best with it! Yep, I have left UK several times now and I won't go back this time! 🀣🀣 Sorry to say, but it's a doomed dystopian surveillance state now. Surveillance cams and facial recognition everywhere. The sad thing is (after my last visit) the normies seem completely oblivious to the fact. Combined with the atrocious weather... not sure what there would be to return to.
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Couldn't agree more bud. If you're ever in San Cris, Chiapas, come stop by Casa Satoshi and say hi πŸ€™πŸΌ
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I know San CristΓ³bal de las Casas well. There is something about the blend of cultures. It's a chunky blend. Not so smooth. You have: The old colonial architecture - cobblestone streets, wrought iron gates, the church built in 1577. The even more ancient Mayan Lacandon culture that continues to permeate the region. And the modern world both elbowing in and sprouting up from within that gives the town a mixed identity with an edgy frontier character. It's been a minute, but would love to go back. Hasta luego.
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🫢🏻
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501 sats \ 4 replies \ @KLT 14 Feb
Everything takes time as they say. People were not quick to accept credit cards over cash in the 1950s/ early 60s. People definitely weren’t quick to use online banking in the early 2000s vs going into the branch.
Once the better option is introduced, it’ll grow with education and time. These are the early days right.
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Totally agree with you you. The only problem is that I will be living in heavens, hopefully I will find bitcoin and LN very active there! βž• πŸ™ πŸ˜‡
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11 sats \ 1 reply \ @KLT 14 Feb
Man! I hope we’re all alive to see where things end up πŸ™πŸΎ
In comparison to other technologies, it seems like the BTC adoption curve, once it clicks, will have a much faster acceleration.
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Don't worry, I will! I plan to live 99.9 years on this planet, so hoping the technology will be adjusted until then for mass adoption! :)) πŸ˜‚
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Totally. Onwards and upwards πŸ€™πŸΌ
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367 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 14 Feb
"the most efficient way to perform tax/commission free remittances."
This is one of the best use cases.
Are you going to any meetups?
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I wanted to but can't find any... The only one was an 'online only' meetup, so haven't managed to connect much with the community... I was hoping to see more 'on the ground activity' - the lack of it was one of the reasons I was initially disappointed πŸ™ˆ
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The beach does not qualify as the "underground".
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Where does? I'm travelling ES at the moment with a car, and have spent time in Sonsonante, Libertad and Santa Ana. I'm open to further suggestions.
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Isn't there some shady coffee shop somewhere around there that has a bitcoin sticker on the door as an afterthought?
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Probably😝. If you can find/remember a name or location I'll go check it out and report back. I'm here on a Bitcoin fact-finding mission, so community input helps me cover as many bases as possible πŸ€™πŸΌ
(Also, as far as I've seen so far, Bitcoin knowledge and interest is pretty much zero outside the La Libertad surf zone... I meant what I said when I asked for suggestions about where I can go or what I can do to get to see the 'real underground' πŸ˜‹).
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Good on you for meaning what you say. It's rare these days.
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πŸ€—πŸ€™πŸΌ
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Do you have plans to make it over to Berlin? From speaking with some folks from ES at Unconfiscatable, that sounds like it is much farther along in adoption community wide.
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Possibly, if we have time 🫑
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While it's true that adoption is still low, I believe there are a few factors that could contribute to its future growth. Firstly, the government's decision to make Bitcoin legal tender could provide a significant boost to adoption, as more businesses and individuals are likely to start using it in everyday transactions. Secondly, the increasing popularity of cryptocurrency around the world could also lead to more people in El Salvador becoming interested in using Bitcoin. The development of more user-friendly Bitcoin wallets and payment systems could make it easier for people to use Bitcoin, which could further accelerate adoption. I'm cautiously optimistic about the future of Bitcoin in El Salvador, and I believe it has the potential to play a significant role in the country's economy.
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While I wish you were right, but this isn't my experience on the ground.
  1. The government made the decision a good 2-3 years ago. The 'boost' already happened. It had little to no impact. It's not new in El Salvador anymore, and most locals still don't care.
  2. a tiny minority of Salvadorans pay attention to or care about what's happening 'around the world'. The vast majority have no interest in what the world thinks about 'cryptocurrency'. I'm saying this based on conversations I've had with locals, in multiple states - coastal, internal, urban and rural.
  3. not a single human in el Salvador, foreign or local, has mentioned UX/UI or 'confusing tech' as a reason for not using it. They simply don't see a need for it, outside of cheap remittances. The economy is dollarized - This isn't Argentina, Lebanon or Venezuela.
I'm short, the problem is that most people don't see a problem, they have dollars and are happy with them. The issues of diminishing purchasing power, corrupted money, inflation etc are all a long way from the average Salvadoran's mind. Until that changes, which I don't believe it will any time soon, Bitcoin will remain a folly, accepted by a tiny handful of businesses, providing 'Bitcoin Disneyland' to wishful gueros (like me) who are looking to spend their Bitcoin in order to confirm their motivated reasoning.
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I have heard from travellers to south america that the preferred method of financial transaction are gold and silver coins. Precioius metals are not far from being a gateway drug to bitcoin and crypto. But it could take time for it to catch on. The most attractive option for south america could be a crypto token backed by gold/silver.
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I have spent a lot of time travelling, living, working and owning businesses in central and south America. I have never seen a single transaction conducted using precious metals. Your information is incorrect, and likely comes from biased, motivated reasoning. There is no use case for a crypto token backed by gold or silver. Bitcoin already exists.
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Interesting point. I've heard similar things about gold and silver being the go-to down there. It's a natural step towards appreciating hard assets, wouldn't you say? Wonder if they'll eventually make the leap to something like bitcoin...maybe even a precious metal-backed token for extra stability?
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No you haven't heard this. Or, if you have, you heard wrong. Precious metals are not used at all here, and noone has ever mentioned them to me, even as simple investments or stores of wealth. They want dollars, for the vast majority. A tiny minority understand Bitcoin as a superior store of wealth. Everything else is an afterthought.
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Ah I see you're down in my old country. I was just in ES a few months ago myself.
Be sure to get out a little, there's a lot to see!
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I'm trying! Been spending time on the beaches of Libertad and Sonsonante up to now. Heading inland to lake Coatepeque, Volcan Santa Ana, indigenous ruins and thermal waters of Santa Teresa in the coming week.
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The whole bitcoin-salvador topic is very interesting, thanks for sharing friend and may PagΓΌer πŸ’ͺ😎⚑be with you
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Thanks πŸ™ŒπŸ»πŸ«‘
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Seems to agree with the observations from this study in Science.
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Great study, thanks for sharing. It resonates with my experience on the ground.
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Thanks for the report out on the ground! We are early and need more of you!
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πŸ«ΆπŸ»πŸ˜‹
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Thanks, going there very soon.
Can you say some things about the economy in general, wages, real estate prices etc, compared to other latin countries?
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I'd say it's similar pricing and economic strength to Mexico. A lot of the coast seems to be privatised which is a shame, not a lot of public access beaches, lots of beach bars and ranchos. Can't comment on wages or prices of real estate I'm afraid 🀷🏻
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Thanks.
What I love about Mexico is that there are no private beaches. It works really well here. But, vs the libertarian perspective it would be an interesting conversation to have :-)
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... What a surprise.
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Care to elaborate?
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It shouldn't come as a suprise that Bitcoiners vastly overestimate the actual usage of Bitcoin beyond the use of a SOV.
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Ok yeah fair point
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As fair as the place called Fairbanks.
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