Have you connected an external wallet on SN? \ stacker news ~meta

Have you connected an external wallet on SN?

3290 sats \ 51 comments \ @sn 27 Feb meta

Lately we've been working to build out a suite of external wallet connections for stackers, and have already launched a few options for auto-funding and auto-withdrawing to date.

Just wanted to post a quick poll to see how many stackers have had a chance to try out these external wallet connections to date, and open the floor to feedback on them so far.

Have you connected an external wallet to Stacker News yet?
If so, how was your experience?
What other external wallet connections would you like to see prioritized?

Only Auto-Fund4.5%

Only Auto-Withdraw17.9%

Both Auto-Fund & Auto-Withdraw10.4%

Neither Auto-Fund or Auto-Withdraw67.2%

67 votes \ poll ended

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729 sats \ 1 reply \ @Atreus 27 Feb

If I take too much out how am I supposed to zap you fine gentlemen?

304 sats \ 0 replies \ @sn OP 27 Feb

that's what auto-funding is for 🤠

719 sats \ 8 replies \ @justin_shocknet 27 Feb

I still insist that these patterns are all backwards

A user concerned with consolidating or budgeting across accounts should do that from their wallet, that gives them a command center with a full view for larger directives than would be in scope for each individual app. It also obviates the online-ness issues.

Persistent LNurl-Withdrawal links is all SN needs for this, right now demo's break after they expire:

Persistent withdraw links understandably need a UX tweak on the SN UI so they aren't accidentally sniped, but a simple warning and reveal click should do it.

1150 sats \ 7 replies \ @ek 27 Feb

We don't want to be a wallet; we don't want to be a custodian (in the long run).

We think you should connect your wallet to SN, not SN to your wallet.

So I think what you have in mind with persistent LNURL-withdrawal links is what actually would push us backwards: being more like a wallet or "source" as it seems to be called in Shockwallet.

Also, I don't see how persistent LNURL-withdrawal links have to be required for what you're showing. Can't you create withdrawals on the fly? If you simply need better API access for that, let us know.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @justin_shocknet 27 Feb

What you've done though is exactly the opposite of you're stated objective.... you've now turned SN into a programmable wallet. The aligned pattern would be instead yielding to rules controlled by an independent wallet like ShockWallet.

Custodian labels is theater in this context tbf, it's a trusted budget and invoice transport no matter what you want to project it as- to regulators or otherwise. Getting trapped into narrative corners like that is no way to create better solutions.

The only standard way to withdraw on the fly afaik is a withdrawal link, which expires and therefore breaks after it's been connected. That's already standard you support that doesn't require all the overhead you just implemented to remain a trusted and centralized service

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 27 Feb

What you've done though is exactly the opposite of you're stated objective....

We're not done yet, this was just the first step of many to come

The only standard way to withdraw on the fly afaik is a withdrawal link, which expires and therefore breaks after it's been connected.

Ah sorry, I didn't mean withdrawal links. I meant you can create an invoice for a service and then let the SN node pay that invoice. It's currently not trivial how to do that without the frontend but it's possible. That's basically a withdrawal where expiration of withdrawal links don't matter and should align with what you're building with your wallet. I don't understand why you would need persistent withdrawal links.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @justin_shocknet 27 Feb

Leaving programability at the wallet layer is step 1, our nostr account stuff could provide further separation and solve offlineness.

The lnurl-withdrawal link is the only standard way for an external wallet to pass an invoice for the service to pay

512 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 27 Feb

Mhh, I think we are talking past each other. Are you talking about LUD-14 and maybe LUD-15 when you say "persistent withdrawal links"?

1332 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 27 Feb

Nope, none of that extra stuff is needed,.. straight LUD-03 which you have already is fine.

The balance you see in my screenshot comes from the maxWithdrawable tag in the response, literally the only thing in the way is the timeout of the k1. Fixing this obviates your AUTO-WITHDRAW efforts with the existing neutral spec.

Conversely, LUD-19 could be used for "AUTO-FUND" too if desired, but that's redundant to the user just adding their "stackerwallet" lightning address as a source

659 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 27 Feb

Mhh, I see now what you are talking about, thanks!

I was confused since LUD-03 mentions that k1 should be ephemeral:

Note that service will withdraw funds to anyone who can provide a valid ephemeral k1.

So aren't "persistent withdrawals links" non-standard behavior? All the other sources in your screenshot, do they accept the same k1 over and over again?

Also, can you elaborate on this part:

so they aren't accidentally sniped

What do you mean with "sniped"?

view replies

584 sats \ 2 replies \ @justBrian 27 Feb freebie

small private channel to stacker news, auto withdrawal and nwc set up with my node, working fantastically no fees involved. 🤙

335 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 27 Feb

few

512 sats \ 0 replies \ @justBrian 27 Feb freebie

the poor mans wrapped lightning invoice as i like to call it 😅

432 sats \ 0 replies \ @Nuttall 27 Feb

The Auto Withdrawal works really well!

I've changed it some and it was a fast change.

Great work.

557 sats \ 1 reply \ @benthecarman 28 Feb freebie

Using both, the auto withdrawal is great, would be nice if could do keysend with a message so I know the payments are for rather than just random little payments.

The nwc integration has not been the best, the UI is kinda janky with the payments, things aren't responsive and polls don't work very well. Often the pending payment thing will stay up forever even if it goes through

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @doofus 28 Feb

Yes, keysend messages would be great.

776 sats \ 0 replies \ @JesseJames 27 Feb

How about if you connect/login to SN through (for example) Zeus then you can ask " do you want to use this wallet for SN? and configure it automagically, that would be an awesome customer experience.... just saying...

375 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitByBit21 27 Feb

LN address for receive was easy. It took me some time to set my NWC for sending but it finally worked. Did not have look with LNBits and LND though.

446 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 27 Feb

No. What for? I've told SN several times: MAKE SN WALLET A LNDHUB WALLET. IS THE BEST OPTION.

882 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 27 Feb

See #440909

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 27 Feb

it doesn't matter. Is a bad choice as it is now. Useless and complicated. A LNDHUB account on the other side will be much easier to handle by a noob. Who understand the risks of using a custodial account, knows very well what to do. Who doesn't understand the risks... HFSP, those are negligible mass.

319 sats \ 2 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 27 Feb

Not yet. I am comfortable leaving some sats in my SN wallet, its enough to play around with here.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 27 Feb

that's because you still didn't learned how to use SN as a "coinjoin" mechanism...

512 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 27 Feb

Makes perfect sense to use SN as coinjoin, thanks darth!

327 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 27 Feb

I use my node wallet, but it must be difficult with wallets like phoenix. Does SN recommend particular wallets? In my experience it's a little clunky even with my node.

125 sats \ 1 reply \ @sn OP 27 Feb

any particular issues you faced while connecting your node?

693 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 27 Feb

It connected without an issue. There was an issue when I used it the first time (auto withdraw) The transfer occurred overnight when I was not on SN and I received the day's rewards. The funds were withdrawn from my SN wallet but did not seamlessly flow to my node wallet. I only had access to my node through Zeus at the time. I received some sort of prompt, at which point the sats appeared in the node wallet. I wish I took better notes to tell you exactly what occurred, but I needed to somehow affirmatively accept the transaction. I'll test it again if you like and let you know what happens.

295 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 27 Feb

Haven't done it yet. Its pretty easy just to transfer out to my wallet whenever I need to.

295 sats \ 2 replies \ @Natalia 27 Feb

not yet 👀

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @sn OP 27 Feb

what's holding you back?

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 27 Feb

good question, maybe because I don't withdraw so much, so it's not quite an urgent need... 👀

290 sats \ 0 replies \ @Entrep 27 Feb

Not yet, I still take too much time before I start using a feature

512 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 27 Feb

All of sats I want to use here

512 sats \ 0 replies \ @StoneCodlHodl 27 Feb

I'm feeding my SN balance with Nostr Zaps, using my SN LN-Address

512 sats \ 1 reply \ @erict875 27 Feb

Sorry, a bit confused. I have configured nwc with my mutiny wallet. Does it mean I now have two wallets, including sn? Where do I setup auto withdraw/fund?

882 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 27 Feb

Does it mean I now have two wallets, including sn?

Yes, you have now two wallets with separate balances: the balance in your SN wallet and the balance in your Mutiny wallet. When you zap or pay for something on SN, we try to pay from your SN wallet first since that always has zero costs and latency. If you don't have enough funds in your SN wallet, we fallback to your Mutiny wallet.

Where do I setup auto withdraw/fund?

NWC currently only works for funding/spending so you basically already setup auto funding. You can setup auto withdrawals with the receive only methods (LND or lighting address for now):

285 sats \ 5 replies \ @tomlaies 27 Feb

No. One of the things I like about Bitcoin is how I am in control and keep things simple & manual. Not hating on other people liking to have the option tho.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @tomlaies 27 Feb

Btw it's still possible to keep ctrl+enter held down and comment multiple times per second. Quick way to drain you entire networth for people who have their wallet connected and have a jammed or buggy keyboard. @k00b

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 27 Feb

Sorry, that keeps regressing for some reason.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 28 Feb

test

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 28 Feb

Mhh, can't reproduce but I also don't want to ask you if you can reproduce it since it costs you sats. Maybe it would already help if you can show me the comment where it happened to you? I can't find it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @tomlaies 28 Feb

It was a little longer ago: #90648 I submitted the comment only a few times. I think a second submission of a comment should also be denied on serverside not just frontend side

285 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 27 Feb

Lol I only withdrew once because my balance went orange and fired warnings so I made it green so we go again

285 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 27 Feb

Neither. The sats I get I zap back around.

15 sats \ 0 replies \ @ladyluck 28 Feb

I hope it is not a necessity and SN wouldn't take the few Sats I have on their platform

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 27 Feb

I assume you already have the numbers for adoption, and this is mostly just a place to have discussions about why folks have or have not used the feature. Any chance the actual adoption metrics will be shared?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @sn OP 27 Feb

yeah this is mostly a venue for gathering feedback, as well as an educational post for the new stackers who didn't realize SN supported external wallet connections.

the goal is to make external wallet connections so good that everyone uses them.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 27 Feb

I’ve been meaning to. I have Exodus which I don’t like I think I want a Phoenix one. I plan to look into that soon!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 28 Feb

Auto-withdrawal = Top up SN, and then send to Self-custody!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oraltosun 28 Feb

But considering to connect it soon.