SN release: spam-related enhancements
5408 sats \ 44 comments \ @k00b 11 Aug 2022 meta
In response to some of the spam we got last weekend, we've prioritized related features.
What we've done:
  1. no more free posts (or comments as of last Saturday)
    • this sucks to do because it increases friction for new users but I suspect we will be able to resume free stuff eventually so long as I make it optional to see
  2. removed the ability to add images as links, e.g. [![alt](image)](link) will just display the image
  3. it now costs 10x more to add images or links to posts/comments, e.g. if your discussion post costs 1 sat, it now costs 10 sats to add an images and/or link
  4. repeated posts/comments, and self-replies within a 10 minute window cost x10^X more, where X is the number of repeats you've done in 10 minutes
  5. when you pay more than 1 sat for a post or comment:
    1. a little "info" icon will appear and when clicked will show you a breakdown of the costs
    2. the post/comment button will display the amount of sats you'll be paying
Caveats:
  1. you can't edit in images or links to posts/comments yet
    • I'm going to be fixing this over the next few days, along with allowing you to edit polls, boost, and tip forwarding
One thing we don't do yet with regard to spam that we plan to do: posting the same link repeatedly within week/month.
As always, this is just an experiment and an attempt to determine what's right. We might eventually increase the 10 minute window or allow trusted users to do certain actions more cheaply, or who knows what - it's all an experiment.
After I enhance editing, I'm going to continue enhancing other existing stuff (e.g. more poll choices). If you have anything you specifically want enhanced, let me know in the comments and I'll try to prioritize it.
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178 sats \ 1 reply \ @gms 11 Aug 2022
I like it, let's see if this lowers the non-bitcoin related content a bit and brings more quality.
Although I think polls should cost more, from the fact that recovering the cost of publishing is very easy.
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5 sats \ 0 replies \ @zuspotirko 12 Aug 2022
I like posting things that are only partly related or offtopic stuff :(
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160 sats \ 1 reply \ @cameri 12 Aug 2022
Many Emojis in the title should cost more. Maybe it more expensive to add more than a certain amount.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 12 Aug 2022
I generally agree. Let's see how these changes go over first
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1001 sats \ 2 replies \ @sgornick 11 Aug 2022
Since this update ...
Trying to do a Link post. I get:
"Cannot read property 'toString' of undefined"
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26 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 11 Aug 2022
Investigating
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31 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 11 Aug 2022
Found it. Thanks for reporting. Shipping the fix!
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147 sats \ 1 reply \ @jack 13 Aug 2022
Testing things....
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @nkmg1c_ventures 14 Aug 2022
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130 sats \ 2 replies \ @cointastical 13 Aug 2022
no more free posts (or comments as of last Saturday)
How about a sub for beginners / unrestricted? This would be like how on BitcoinTalk they have a Beginners forum board, with no posting restrictions like the other forum boards. In that, someone new with no access to a few sats might ask for a donation to help them make their first post or comment. There's no guarantee it wouldn't be spammer but the more likely a spammer would't waste the time going through that.
But that way nobody with something to post or comment on wouldn't be prevented from doing so (assuming they find a donor) because of no access to some sats.
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105 sats \ 0 replies \ @cameri 13 Aug 2022
I like this idea. You should run out of free posts faster if you include images.
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25 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 13 Aug 2022
I want to do something like that.
The way I’d like it to work: every user can set a minimum trust level for the posts/comments they see. Some of us who want to help onboard people would set it to 0 and deal with more spam. Users who don’t want to see spam or low quality posts would set it higher. Then we can turn back on free posts/comments.
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @simple 12 Aug 2022
@k00b something has to be done for this scenario
#58224
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 12 Aug 2022
Thanks! I think resurfacing old content could be useful. We just need to prevent people from doing it over and over again probably.
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121 sats \ 0 replies \ @taxd 11 Aug 2022
Highly interesting experiment, that will go to history. My view is that everything should (micro)-cost or it will be abused. This is a good start and will show where any pain-points are.
Keep up the good work.
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111 sats \ 0 replies \ @go 11 Aug 2022
21 Sat salute, sir!
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110 sats \ 1 reply \ @bitcoinpleb_b 12 Aug 2022
Thanks for doing that! 👊🏻
Is muting on the roadmap?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 12 Aug 2022
It can be. I’ll add a GH issue for it
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110 sats \ 0 replies \ @kale 11 Aug 2022
One suggestion:
Allow user to append into original post after editing expires.
Maybe set maximum append count as 3
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @pi 23 Aug 2022
Please consider adding downvote and upvote buttons. Posts with a downvote - upvote balance of x will not appear on the feed, they are only accessible via direct link and still appear on the author's profile. The author gets penalised too, they get charged more sats for new posts, until their future publications earn a certain TBD amount. @k00b
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @mikhael 14 Aug 2022
I like how you are approaching the development process, great stuff.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @rodarmor 14 Aug 2022
The fact that SN can respond to spam by making things more or less costly is huge. Other platforms have to use much more awkward mechanisms, whereas SN can be like “Eh, this seems to be bad, let’s charge one more sat every time people can do it.”
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100 sats \ 2 replies \ @tbonesteaks 12 Aug 2022
What was the issue with [![alt](image)](link)? Or, maybe, what was the spam issue in general? I missed it. Sounds like it was all image related.
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 12 Aug 2022
They were sharing ad banners that when clicked took you to spammy referral products. There aren't many good reasons to make an image a link.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @tbonesteaks 12 Aug 2022
Ah, gotcha. I agree.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @sandbeach123old 12 Aug 2022
Excellent news. IMHO any posting should come with a cost, and adjusting that cost is necessary for keeping a balance between quality and quantity. OTOH I love that reading is free. The more people can freely enjoy the content the better. For me this is how the press should be. Maybe in the future SN will even have home made journalist publications. You are really doing an excellent work. Thanks!!!
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @random_ 12 Aug 2022
You're right about the friction.
What about a deposit to make an account in exchange for free posts?
Or accounts made with invitation links get free posts (possibly subsidized by the inviter)?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 12 Aug 2022
If you have to make a deposit, then you're able to make posts at relatively low cost. The friction is having to make a deposit IMO, not paying.
Invitation links already allow you to give new users sats on sign up. This does prevent the friction but doesn't help with users who aren't invited.
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 12 Aug 2022
Oh I really like the "your bill" dialog! Super clear!
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224 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 12 Aug 2022
I've been calling it a receipt. Same same.
Props to @kr on the design.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @tomlaies 12 Aug 2022
I hope point 1 is temporary since it might actually slow down the onboarding of new users. Especially for people who are new to Lightning - which is most of the world population.
I'm a big big fan of point 4.
One thing we don't do yet with regard to spam that we plan to do: posting the same link repeatedly within week/month.
This is a great idea. Let me mention additionally link-shortener services/websites to that.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @guyfawkes 12 Aug 2022
So bullish on SN!
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @ken 12 Aug 2022
Thanks for all the great work, @k00b! I really hope stacker.news continues its exponential growth of users!
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @linesgone 12 Aug 2022
#3 & #4 are good. #4 should be implemented for any repeated post/link within a given time period.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @random_ 12 Aug 2022
Oh! You were serious.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @User21000000 11 Aug 2022
Great work SN
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7 sats \ 1 reply \ @User21000000 11 Aug 2022
Hey @k00b how do you know if you are a trusted user or if someone else posting is a trusted user?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 11 Aug 2022
Based on their behavior. It's kind of complicated though - we use a web of trust.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @F 13 Aug 2022
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @IgnaciobTato 15 Aug 2022
I don't know if it is worthy a rule, but ultimately it's all about new discussions with just a link. The publisher doesn't even care to add some comments to talk about what the link is about. I don't know if they read them before posting. I also don't want to click anywhere.
So, maybe adding a comment feature on new link post to make this clear. Thanks.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @simple 11 Aug 2022
i am the first experienced the changes....
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101 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies 12 Aug 2022
Your quantitative ❓ posts ❓ deserve to be more expensive. They are on the border between acceptable low-effort farming and unacceptable spam imo - especially due to the emojis.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @simple 12 Aug 2022
good criticism, always welcome. i will try to be more informative....
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cameri 12 Aug 2022
That means the measures are working :)
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