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221 sats \ 22 replies \ @bitalion 17 Sep \ on: Chaumian E-Cash on Bitcoin: Banks in Cyberspace or Regulatory Capture? bitcoin
I don't understand what this is about, why would I want to use ecash in a mint where someone else has to guard my funds, assuming that the person who tells me that they can't be hacked or become dishonest and take the funds is honest. We have bitcoin onchain, if we don't want to pay a lot of commission we use Lightning; but always in a self-custodial manner. That principle must prevail in bitcoin.
Nobody is forcing you to use e-cash. You can always use Bitcoin or Lightning in a self-sovereign way. Maybe you can become the "honest banker" for others then with a Lightning node.
However, there will always be Bitcoin users (especially when Bitcoin becomes more popular) who would rather give custody of their sats to someone else, no matter how smooth the self-custody tools will be.
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E cash sounds like a solution in search of a problem at least partially
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How many sats do you trust the SN wallet to hold before sending it to your lightning node?
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Good point.
SN zaps are a bit like e-cash.
Maybe if they really were e-cash, it could solve some possible future regulatory issues related to holding users’ funds.
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It doesn't solve regulatory problems. It merely obfuscates them. Someone has to custody the bitcoin and we can't.
Ecash makes usage of these "banks" private. It doesn't solve custodial regulations.
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Hey Koob,
Should the SN wallet be a cashu wallet with NWC?
I know you've put a huge amount of time and thought into the wallet, and I'm half retarded so you'll need to excuse some of my ignorance.
Shouldn't all these bitcoin apps with wallets just be e-cash wallets. Especially with that unified nostr wallet thing. Wouldn't it be a step in the right direction as far as interoperability, privacy and security tradeoffs.
Speak some sense into me koob. I'm sure I'm missing something, just not sure what it is. Probably me being to trusting or misunderstanding some aspect of the tech.
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Who holds the bitcoin, wildhustle? That’s the problem that Cashu doesn’t magically solve. Someone has to hold the bitcoin and we can’t.
We can build an ecash note storage system into SN (it’d be another kind of attached wallet), and we plan to add it as an option, but stackers would have to choose and trust a Cashu custodian.
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Should you guys just remove the wallet entirely and use NWC? Sucks for new users but at least they aren't trusting a custodian with their corn.
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Thanks again Koob, its been one of those days.
Just set the attached wallet to NWC with albyhub and auto-withdraw via lightning address to alby.
Apologies Koob, feels like I'm being slightly difficult. Hectic morning.
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Ah, you guys dont want to be responsible for holding anyone's corn.
If my e-cash balance is saved on multiple relays, and SN gives me the option to use the NIP 60 wallet. Would it still be considered as SN holding corn?
And I dont mind putting 1k sats in products that I use on a daily basis, if it gives me some sort of value or benefit.
But i guess as SN scales it would be better to move completely away from anything that might be considered custody. Do you think all bitcoin apps should aspire to the same?
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We won't always have self-custodial solutions, simply because it's not feasible in all cases, just like you say you can put 1k in something that might give you benefits. A good wallet should pursue self-custody for the sake of its users; but for example I don't think SN needs something like that, it's enough that it provides more ways to withdraw funds.
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SN can't hold the bitcoin.
So users need to choose between another custodian or sovereign lightning node.
If we're moving completely away from all custodial relationships (regardless of the amount of sats we're trusting them with.) E-cash doesn't make any sense.
If I shouldn't trust an app with 5 sats, why would I use e-cash at all. My node works just fine.
Obfuscation is a pseudo solution
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sir, SN cowboy credits is the Bitcoin L3 😂😂😂😂
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But no unilateral exit!
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Ha!
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deleted by author
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It’s all about utxos. E-cash is just a tool for those who want to use trust. If you don’t trust the mint don’t use it or use how ever much you are comfortable losing .
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