What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Nov. 5th?
Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.
So, what happens to the sats in my wallet on Nov. 5th?
Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.
So I don't need to panic because sats in my wallet after Nov. 5th will remain available to withdraw just like they were on Nov. 4th?
Yes, that's right.
If my sats remain available to withdraw, then what changes on Nov. 5th?
To zap with real bitcoin and be zapped with real bitcoin, you'll need to attach an external lightning wallet for sending and receiving respectively:
  1. If you want to send real bitcoin to other stackers when you zap them on SN, you'll need to attach an external sending wallet.
  2. If you want to receive bitcoin when you're zapped on SN, you'll need to attach an external receiving wallet.
If I don't have or want to attach external wallets, what happens to the zaps I send and the zaps I receive after Nov. 5th?
  1. When you zap someone else, you'll send Cowboy Credits and they'll receive Cowboy Credits.
  2. When someone zaps you, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.
What are "Cowboy Credits"?
SN will accept Cowboy Credits as payment for everything it accepts sats for (e.g. posting fees, territory fees, even donations). You can also send them to other stackers as zaps.
So the only difference between Cowboy Credits and sats is that I can't withdraw Cowboy Credits?
That's right. That's the only difference.
What happens to rewards and territory revenue after Nov. 5th?
Nothing. Rewards and territory revenue will work the same as they do now.
Even if I don't attach an external wallet?
Yes, you'll receive "Reward Sats" which (like all custodial wallet balances) are not to be mistaken as truly yours until you withdraw them. You can also buy Cowboy Credits with Reward Sats if you choose. The only real changes to rewards after Nov. 5th are:
  1. Reward Sats can't be zapped to other stackers
  2. Reward Sats are subject to the following magic words, aka terms and conditions:
    • From time to time, Company may, at its sole discretion, offer and provide prizes or awards of BTC ("Reward Sats") to individuals or entities based on Company initiatives, promotions, or for other reasons determined by Company. Company reserves the right to issue (or not issue) such Reward Sats to any person or entity, at any time, and without prior notice. If you are selected to receive Reward Sats, Company will notify you and will transmit the Reward Sats to your account. In order to claim the Reward Sats, you will be required to set up an account, and may be required to provide certain personal information, including but not limited to, a valid Lightning wallet invoice. Failure to provide accurate and complete information may result in the forfeiture of the Reward Sats. You acknowledge and agree that you do not own, and shall have no right, title, or interest in any Reward Sats until such time as the Reward Sats are successfully transferred to your designated Lightning wallet. Until the transfer is completed, all rights to the Reward Sats remain solely with Company. Company makes no guarantee regarding the timing or availability of any such Reward Sats.
Can I zap other stackers my Reward Sats?
No, without an external sending wallet, you can only zap other stackers Cowboy Credits.
Do Reward Sats, or any of these changes, involve KYC or so-called "soft" KYC?
No, they do not.
What if I receive sats to my SN lightning address after Nov. 5th?
If you've attached an external receiving wallet, those sats will go directly to your receiving wallet.
If you haven't attached an external receiving wallet, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.
I have more questions about Nov 5th. Where can I ask them?
In this thread. Ask me anything.
I'm a territory founder and this change makes me regret paying for or purchasing a territory.
Please email me.
I'm having a bad day, week, month, year, or life. Where's the best place for me to make you miserable too while pretending that this post is the cause?
In this thread.
I'm miserable but also sanctimonious so I'd like to write a eulogy for SN that you'll read. Where's the best place to do that?
In this thread, but it might be more fitting to write it on nostr or X and tag me.
Will SN ever offer a custodial lightning wallet again?
We may eventually partner with Zebedee and/or Strike and/or whoever to offer a 100% OPTIONAL integrated and regulated custodial wallet, but that will happen well after Nov. 5th.
What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Nov. 5th?
Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

This is a repost to get a fresh thread. See #722833 for previous discussions.
it's good you picked Nov 5, a dull ordinary mundane day
reply
rip SN
reply
reply
reply
11 sats \ 0 replies \ @Wumbo 22 Oct
Looks like they rename the town to Fugging
reply
100 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 20 Oct
rip LN
reply
325 sats \ 0 replies \ @Chep 31 Oct
I just want to say thanks for taking the time to build such a kickass platform. Building things ain't easy and I respect a cowboy who does it anyway, cheers sir
reply
So if I understand this correctly.
Daily Rewards, territory rewards, and zaps from stackers that have their own wallets linked will be sats and will be withdrawn to your attached wallet.
Everything else are cowboy credits that can’t be withdrawn? So stackers with no wallet attached they are zapping credits around that stay within the SN system.
So if I zap someone who doesn’t have a wallet attached it automatically gets converted to cowboy credits to stay in SN forever never to be withdrawn?
reply
303 sats \ 16 replies \ @ek 21 Oct
So if I zap someone who doesn’t have a wallet attached it automatically gets converted to cowboy credits to stay in SN forever never to be withdrawn?
Yes with the exception that Cowboy credits slowly become sats through rewards again
reply
so daily rewards and other rewards are not also "money transmission" ? Or you have a special license for cowboy credits?
reply
Rewards are just us sending you our own money which isn't money transmission. I know you're just trolling, but I figured I should reply for anyone reading.
reply
Is not trolling. Is a genuine question.
sending you our own money
Sending is still transmission...
reply
Money transmission is the act of one party receiving currency for the purpose of sending it over to another party.
reply
So what is if I donate 1000 sats to the SN pool and then SN is sending those sats to others? Is not transmitting?
reply
It's not - according to lawyers. I've told you that already.
If you donate 1000 sats it's like buying 1000 cc's. rewards are not considered money transmission. You're missing the @Lux pills! Ahahahha
Okay thanks
reply
If you can custody "reward sats", why can't you do the same for "zappin' sats"?
I'm not insinuating that you should, just curious about the reason.
reply
Money transmitter laws. Custody is fine. Custody promising transmission to another party is not.
reply
Tell them I am the custodian. I know how to deal with govs. btw that bullshit with MTL it doesn't apply to bitcoin. Only to fiat. I dare to challenge anybody in court about that. I think you are too scared for a bitcoiner. Or aren't you a bitcoiner?
reply
Why don’t you run an uncle Jim node for all bitcoiners then to save them from the scared people?
reply
I run. Also for some merchants. But is private. And each knowledgeable bitcoiner should do this in his own local community.
reply
You're asking me to do it for strangers on the internet. Are you afraid to do what you're asking me to do?
reply
I am not afraid. As I said, I already do it, but with limited users, chosen by me. I am the one that I can rug pull them so why should I be afraid?
And I don't want you to be my custodian, I never forced you to do that. What I said here is that you should just separate upvotes from zaps (sats). That's all. I know by myself, running a small LN bank, that custody is a hell of a burden and a huge responsibility.
reply
That's what we're doing while allowing people the option to use sats if they want. Let's revisit this conversation when it's live. It'll be easier to show how it works than explain it.
Will you issue us DarthCoins while you hold our sats?
reply
No, I already said about "darthcoin" as a coin. It exist ONLY one and is mine.
It cannot be sold, transferred, moved or inherited. It will be destroyed instantly if somebody will try that. That's it. And was forged with a rare element that you can find it ONLY on the Mustafar planet (Darth's volcano planet)
Cowboy credits are just fine and also sounds really cool.
reply
Is it like Sauron's ring? Does it contain most of your soul?
reply
hahaha no... my soul was stolen by Amidala... but she's gone now.
reply
I wanted to add that we are only custodying money that we are paying you - not money you're sending us to store for you.
reply
Right. I figured we wouldn't be able to fund our wallets with sats anymore.
Will we be able to fund our wallets with cowboy credits, by sending SN sats?
reply
Yep, you'll be able to buy cowboy credits.
reply
SN periodically sends small amounts (random amounts under 100 sats) to my external wallet at random times. Well below any limit. Can I turn that off?
reply
Those sats are people p2p zapping you small amounts.
We'll add a dust limit you can set and receive CCs instead.
reply
Got ya, learning how the new process works and thought it wasn’t starting till 11/5. I assume if my SN wallet amount goes to 0 I just zap directly from my connected wallet? I’m getting close so I may find out today :-)
reply
Yep! I've been on 0 for 2 months now.
reply
Ok cool down to one now lol
reply
6 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Oct
If you zap an amount higher than your current balance we will also ask your attached wallet
reply
Ok was at 0 and saw the QR code to zap you here and did that with my connected wallet. Learning the new process today!
reply
If you add a sending wallet you won't have to see the QR.
reply
can one use own btcpayserver for send/receive?
reply
Install Alby hub beside that BTCpay server (LND) and you are good to go connecting Alby hub with the LND behind that BTCpay server.
reply
Thanks, did just that
reply
If it supports lightning address and nwc
reply
it does support LN by default using it now where NWC comes into play? Not clear on that... wallet is connected why to receive only?
reply
You can only receive to a lightning address. NWC allows you to send. Perhaps there’s a NWC plugin or you can run AlbyHub alongside your node.
reply
yeah, there is but if I reconnect through alby I'm getting this: "Connection to the Lightning node successful, but no public address has been configured" which is weird since I see them in there.... anyone experienced the same? (latest BTCpayserver version) Not sure even how to test if after is allegedly configured, any ideas?
reply
370 sats \ 5 replies \ @Alby 22 Oct
There is Nostr plugin for BTCPay that allows to connect to a funding source (lightning node) via NWC. You can't just connect BTCpay to use with Stacker News, without having Lightning configured. Did you link BTCPay to Alby? (it's possible via LNDHub and NWC)
reply
My alby browser plugin is linked to my LN/BTC node on which BTCpay also runs... just not sure which connection string to put as "receiving" and which as "sending" in self hosted alby hub. my node and email can send/receive.... just having issues wrapping my head around NWC. I'm logging in to SN with my zeus that runs off of my node... is there "an idiot instructions" anywhere...lol
reply
42 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 22 Oct
We need to make a "Cowboy's Guide" for these.
For sending, you'll add permissions for paying invoices.
For receiving, you'll add permission for reading/creating invoices.
Supratic made this guide: #698497
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Alby 23 Oct
Alby Browser Extension is just a wallet interface in your browser and a signing device, here it can be useful in paying webLN invoices, when sending sats over the web, zapping someone on Stacker.News
NWC can be used for both sending and receiving, it's basically giving SN a permission to use your node (like Alby Hub) to create and pay invoices. Much more convenient than through the extension.
Why do you need to use BTCPay here? What kind of node are you running?
Any thoughts of allowing users to designate how much of their rewards they want as sats and as cowboy credits?
I might like to keep some credits on SN to pay for the territory but have the rest of my sats go to my external wallet.
reply
40 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 19 Oct
You'll be able to buy cowboy credits with your rewards and if you don't have cowboy credits we'll convert rewards into cowboy credits when you need them.
Some of these particulars we haven't worked out yet, so I can't say for certain how it'll work, but we can accommodate anything that makes sense.
reply
Ok sounds good.
reply
ah, fuck. Still haven't done this; I'm thinking maybe there's a /remind feature the day before!
reply
33 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 31 Oct
There is: @remindme in 4 days
reply
reply
42 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 31 Oct
Check profile of @remindme for syntax, you need to give it a relative time to remind you. You should have received a warning about your comment.
reply
reply
Great progress! This is the way
reply
I have a question. If we dont have our stacker news lightning addresses, how will we be able to send messages to each other?
reply
11 sats \ 1 reply \ @Wumbo 22 Oct
I think you will still be able to send messages. I just tested sending a message to myself. I got message in SN notification and then the sats where automatically withdrawn.
reply
It works now because we have a stacker news address, right? Or can it work with different addresses? How do we figure those out?
reply
41 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 22 Oct
Your SN lightning address will continue to receive payments and show messages in your notifications, only the sats will get converted into cc if you have no receive wallet attached
reply
Sounds good.
reply
I've set up autowithdrawal to a lightning address with a desired balance greater than zero.
Will this setup allow me to receive real sats when people zap me? Or do I need to set the desired balance to zero?
reply
Yes. The autowithdrawal settings will only apply to reward sats in the future or be removed entirely. We're still working out the details.
reply
😜
reply
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on incentivising using sats instead of CCs for users. Eg if I zap someone CCs and they zap me Sats, net win for me. I'm wondering how you think the usage of sats will play out.
Just to play devil's advocate. What prevents users from using SN and never once sending sats?
Is it possible to bin the CCs and effectively keep it how it is (but with people using custodials) as currently users are forced to spend sats to interact with the site. If they get a choice to interact for free (effectively using CCs) wouldn't they choose that?
My concern comes as I think that territory revenue is already a net loss for most owners, having users send CCs rather than sats I think could bring about the death of many territories.
I'm unsure that the CCs follow the V4V model because they don't have any value in and of themselves.
Just to come full circle on my thoughts, why introduce them at all? Why not keep the platform Sat operated but make it so that users need to have wallets linked to use it?
Sorry if this has already been answered, I'm sure brighter minds than mine have already thought about this but I must have missed the discussion if it was there.
Cheers Devs for the platform you bring us and the work you do. You all can have a brofist from Pub 👊.
reply
concern comes as I think that territory revenue is already a net loss for most owners, having users send CCs rather than sats I think could bring about the death of many territories.
Territory owners are paid in sats even if posting/commenting in the territory is paid in CCs. So it shouldn't affect revenue directly, but you might be saying it'll affect revenue indirectly?
Just to come full circle on my thoughts, why introduce them at all? Why not keep the platform Sat operated but make it so that users need to have wallets linked to use it?
It's a big hurdle for people new to bitcoin/lightning to have a wallet, let alone one that can interact with applications.

One alternative to CCs that we discussed a week or two ago is having zaps between people lacking wallets go straight to the rewards pool (so there's no custody+transmission between them). It's maybe the best alternative structure to CCs we've discussed. The main disadvantage to this is that if someone joins and doesn't attach a wallet, and people zap them, they don't get anything, so their progress (which would otherwise be in the form of CCs) isn't "saved."
reply
I was thinking more indirectly but thanks for clearing up the direct impact. Although territory revenue like you said will still be paid in sats. Individual posts within the territory (my posts specifically) could be zapped entirely of CCs which is effectively a loss when compared to sat usage.
Specifically thinking about ~Music most of the posts in the territory are my content, getting territory revenue is one thing but CCs would negate the individual content posts income. However minor that is, is still relied heavily upon to foot the territory bills.
I do understand that territory fees can be paid in CCs which is great, but if we're getting a mixture of sats and CCs as payment for our content or value for our value, then are we able to pay the bill with a mixture aswell? Eg half sats half CCs?
I find the idea of sats zapped to non walleted users going direct to rewards and interesting one. Maybe in order to negate the need for CCs it may be necessary. But could you implement an automated message such as, "you've been zapped but there's no attached wallet to send them to, your sats have been sent to the rewards pool. Please attach an external wallet to send and receive sats" then maybe link a post on how to? It is a big hurdle yes but with prompts and help, maybe it's one that can be overcome.
Appreciate your thoughts k00b 👊
reply
31 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 2 Nov
I do understand that territory fees can be paid in CCs which is great, but if we're getting a mixture of sats and CCs as payment for our content or value for our value, then are we able to pay the bill with a mixture aswell? Eg half sats half CCs?
Yes, that would be the plan.
Specifically thinking about ~Music most of the posts in the territory are my content, getting territory revenue is one thing but CCs would negate the individual content posts income. However minor that is, is still relied heavily upon to foot the territory bills.
The rewards pool approach wouldn't fix this exactly because you wouldn't get the sats you're zapped from those folks either - it'd go to the rewards pool. But, the rewards pool would be larger, and if you qualified for rewards, the sats you got in rewards would be larger.
But could you implement an automated message such as, "you've been zapped but there's no attached wallet to send them to, your sats have been sent to the rewards pool. Please attach an external wallet to send and receive sats" then maybe link a post on how to?
We were planning to do that with CCs, e.g. "you could've stacked sats but got CCs instead."

I do like the cleanness of the reward pool approach though. Adding another asset complicates things a lot. I'll keep thinking on it more.
reply
Thanks for clearing this up k00b, appreciate it bud.
You are doing great work trying to navigate the money transmission laws, thanks for all you do.
reply
Any timeline on syncing credentials across devices? I've been feeling pretty constrained not being able to direct zap from my phone.
No rush I'm sure you guys are super swamped
reply
I just wrapped it up: https://github.com/stackernews/stacker.news/pull/1507. Once we get another person to verify it, we'll ship it.
reply
Looks like it was merged, but I'm still not able to zap from a secondary device. (Still get the lightning payment QR code). Do I need to change any config to set it up?
reply
21 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 4 Nov
it's not deployed yet, but it's scheduled for today
reply
21 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 31 Oct
Looks like this week
reply
I can zap from my phone and desktop
reply
What type of wallet did you attach?
reply
None
I haven't attached my wallet using NWC
I think I understand your problem now
reply
Hey, how do you get them guns and horses icons?....what's the skinny?
reply
They're easter eggs, pardner!
reply
damn, I want a gun!
reply
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @poe7645 30 Oct
No gun. No horse. So, seemingly nothing to do with connecting your own node via NWC for send and receive...
Perhaps I need to zap more to the reward pool 🤔
reply
That makes more sense
I have not connected NWC
reply
yeah but how? curious mind wants to know...
reply
I'm having a bad day, week, month, year, or life. Where's the best place for me to make you miserable too while pretending that this post is the cause?
oh - THANK - GOD
Hold my beer
reply
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 2 Nov
Can you have multiple wallets attached? Like Phoenixd + NWC + LND?
I'm having some issues with minibits which is on the backend of NWC. If I attach another wallet which one will take precedence?
reply
100 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 2 Nov
Can you have multiple wallets attached? Like Phoenixd + NWC + LND?
Yes you can
If I attach another wallet which one will take precedence?
You can drag them around. We will try to create an invoice or pay from the wallet most on the left first.
reply
My node went down for a few hours today due to a modem issue, I accumulated 42 sats in my SN wallet until I got everything back running and the auto withdraw all set again.
If my node happened to be unreachable again after the 5th would I have accumulated 42 CC instead?
reply
20 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 30 Oct
yes but you can add fallback wallets. we will try to create an invoice from each in order. the order can be changed by dragging the wallets around.
reply
👀🫡🤠
Oh I like fallback wallets. Very nice.
reply
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @random_ 22 Oct
Will the lightning addresses still work the same?
reply
What if I receive sats to my SN lightning address after Nov. 5th?
If you've attached an external receiving wallet, those sats will go directly to your receiving wallet.
If you haven't attached an external receiving wallet, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.
Does that answer it or is it something else?
reply
ok so i already withdraw to a wallet, but to zap i will need to attach one, but i don't use any of the ones offered here at the moment.
will the only option to be to use Blink, for example (since it's in the list)
reply
use Coinos, very easy and beginner friendly and excellend support on SN and Telegram
reply
i didnt see them on the list of wallets to attach to SN
reply
there was a post about it from @grayruby
edit: #687799
reply
85 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 21 Oct
They are using Nostr Wallet Connect (NWC)
reply
Are Cowboy Credits tradable for sats in the wild?
reply
The only way CCs become sats is once they're paid to SN, they enter the rewards pool where we give them out as Reward Sats.
The only way to transfer CCs to another stacker is with a zap which incurs a 30% sybil fee.
reply
Will all of this go live at midnight tonight in Austin? 🇺🇸
reply
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 4 Nov
I'll do an announcement with more info in a few hours. 😅
reply
reply
Why SN still want to use CCs? Is not that creating shitcoins? Let's get rid of them if you really want people to use p2p sats.
reply
21 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 29 Oct
Will this again be about separating upvotes and sats without caring about how everything else works?
Can you explain how ranking, rewards and territory revenue would work without CCs?
reply
If you keep the CCs you are still a "money transmitter" machine.
reply
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 29 Oct
No, we are not.
Also, don’t move the goal post. Answer my questions first:
Can you explain how ranking, rewards and territory revenue would work without CCs?
reply
As you wish... I don't care anymore.
Can you explain how ranking, rewards and territory revenue would work without CCs?
Simple: go back and implement lndhub and fuck the govs and all their fucking laws about money transmitting.
reply
0 sats \ 2 replies \ @dgy 27 Oct
The wallet attaching to LND requires macaroons.
Would a solution based on keysend not be easier?
reply
42 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 27 Oct
We can’t use keysend for non-custodial p2p zaps since it requires us to have a BOLT11 invoice we can wrap.
We could support them for withdrawals but they have no proof of payment which puts us in a bad position imo.
Keysend is good for donations but not for payments
reply
If you do not want to deal with macaroons just put an Alby Hub or Lnbits on top of your LND node and deal from there with a limited funding and access.
Bake separate macaroons for SN link. That way you do not deal with your regular admin macaroons and you can cancel them anytime.
reply
I don't understand it till I see it, and I'm not understanding the change. Then, if SN is changing sats from some fantasy credits means that not even SN is willing to use a bitcoin ecosystem, which is a new drawback for so many projects out there. Bitcoin is everyday being used as digital gold. You buy it, you hold it, you sell it in the future. That's it.
reply
Why are you giving me work. Damnit. Randy, I need help!
reply
Proof of ______
reply
Tedium
reply
Tedium freedium.
reply
After 5th Nov, the downzaps paid from external wallet will be converted into cowboy credits right?
reply
21 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 22 Oct
They go to rewards. Rewards are paid out in sats you can withdraw. So nothing has changed.
reply
Cowboy credits Reward sats
I'm making a note of the new lingo
reply
Are Cowboy Credits a Stacker News coin backed by SATS?
reply
21 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 21 Oct
No
reply
what's the diff for connection sending and receiving? "nostr+walletconnect" is one string...
reply
21 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 21 Oct
Different permissions. The connection to receive shouldn’t be able to send since you’re giving it to us. The permission to spend stays on your device.
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 20 Oct
Question, will we be able to link an external wallet via NWC?
reply
By “we” do you mean @anon? Yes.
Logged in people can already do that.
reply
reply
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.