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Bitcoin celebs now sell shitcoin treasury companies.
1136 sats \ 32 comments \ @alexbit 21h bitcoin
Practically everyone on bitcoin Twitter with an open identity has turned into a seller of treasury company stocks, aka shitcoins. Only anonymous accounts and a few openly identified individuals who haven't sold their souls remain with any genuine message left.
Personally, I'm extremely pessimistic about all these BTC-TCs. The only one that's probably going to survive is MSTR, but even it will underperform bitcoin going forward. And let's not forget that for the others, any significant correction in Bitcoin could cause them to melt down by 80% or more.
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209 sats \ 14 replies \ @grayruby 21h
I am bullish on bitcoin treasury companies (i.e making a profit and sweeping excess cash into Bitcoin). I am bearish on all this fiat financial engineering nonsense that is going on. It would be nice if one of these companies actually built something in the bitcoin space. How about even just a bitcoin only custody solution for other institutions so they can dump coinbase. Is that too much to ask?
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122 sats \ 5 replies \ @SimpleStacker 20h
Would you call that a Bitcoin Treasury company? To me that's just a company that happens to have a bitcoin treasury, not a "Bitcoin Treasury Company"
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162 sats \ 4 replies \ @grayruby 20h
I suppose that’s a good way to distinguish the two.
Bitcoin treasury company Company with a bitcoin treasury
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40 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 19h
Yeah I think the term "bitcoin treasury company" is loosely defined
Stacker News also holds bitcoin, are we also a "bitcoin treasury company"?
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36 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby 19h
Yes, so is Stacker Sports.
Sats per share baby!
I guess technically we aren't a company. So Bitcoin Treasury Hobby.
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50 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 19h
IPO when
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45 sats \ 5 replies \ @alexbit OP 20h
Yes. MSTR tried to build something around Bitcoin (remember MicroStrategy Orange, kind of like storing email credentials on UTXOs?), but quickly abandoned the idea before pivoting to full-blown financial engineering to buy more bitcoin.
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131 sats \ 3 replies \ @freetx 20h
A point to consider: MSTR has basically proved that so far it has been cheaper to use financial engineering to "mine" bitcoin then to actually do it with actual hardware.
From that perspective, they are generating bitcoin more profitably than miners, thus have been rewarded with a 1.7x mNAV based upon that efficiency.
Now here is the big question: Will using "financial engineering mining" be more or less effective in a low-interest rate environment? (To my view it will be more effective with lower interest rates).
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37 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby 20h
I will give them credit. Some of these preferred products are very impressive. I don’t think the market has figured out what they are doing is highly innovative and sophisticated.
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80 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 20h
I did some research into the Strive merger (Viveks company that is turning into a BTC). Although I'm not going to invest (mNAV offering is too high at 2.2x) I do think they have some clever strategies.
Essentially they are looking to merge with companies with "stranded capital". As example, take some biotech company that has $70M in cash on its balance sheet but their drug either failed approval or failed in actual testing....that company in many cases will be trading at 0.9 NAV (ie. less then the cash they have). Although counter-intuitive, thats because there are not lots of good options for them....if they simply close up shop and dividend out the money then it all shareholders get hit with ~15-30% tax hit....
What Strive is offering is: We will give you mNAV 1:1 shares in our BTC company in return for your cash. Then obviously putting that cash into more BTC.
My point on this, is I think the innovation and financial engineering still has a long runway.
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33 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 20h
Yes, I think you are right. Finding a better home for stranded capital is a productive pursuit but I would rather see people build things others need.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 20h
Yes I do recall they were doing trying to do something along those lines.
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56 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 19h
Same here. I'm bullish that they are sinking their capital into bitcoin instead of other assets. That's what we are all doing right?
I frankly don't care that much that people choose to buy stock in a company that hold bitcoin over one that doesn't. If they choose to do that there are likely many many reasons. If they choose to not buy bitcoin that's their problem. I see it as a move in a better direction and one that will lead to more companies holding their cash in bitcoin instead of bonds.
I keep harping on this... we aren't gonna just wake up next week and have a world filled with anarcho-capitalists and crypto-anarchists that hate the FED and self custody bitcoin. People refuse to manage their passwords securely. We have an extremely long way to go and there will be many cycles before the masses even understand bitcoin on a basic level. The elites are just now starting to get to the 2017 era views. Bitcoin is like gold I mean. They are still babies. They will likely die before they figure it out fully.
I'm not saying we should be telling our friends to buy MSTR. I'm saying its not all lost. Its gonna get dumb before it gets smart.
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30 sats \ 0 replies \ @satgoob 20h
What about LQWD? I own a couple shares solely because they provide liquidity to the lightning network and just want to personally have a stake.
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102 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 13h
@Scoresby this is definitely an post idea for you, differences between them all.
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118 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19h
I'm extremely pessimistic about all these BTC-TCs
Why? Are you against companies holding bitcoin, or are you only against companies using leverage to hold even more bitcoin?
I think every company should hold bitcoin in the long run. We just call them "bitcoin treasury companies" for now because them holding bitcoin receives the most attention. But they will have to do more than just hold bitcoin to stay relevant once it's no longer novel.
any significant correction in Bitcoin could cause them to melt down by 80% or more.
That assumes most of their value is in being a bitcoin treasury company, no?
If Apple bought bitcoin, and bitcoin went down 80%, do you think AAPL would also go down by a lot?
Or maybe "bitcoin treasury company" implies that most of their value is in being that, so we wouldn't call Apple a "bitcoin treasury company" even when they start holding bitcoin 🤔
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62 sats \ 5 replies \ @Scoresby 21h
Where do you see education for the next wave of adoption coming from?
If the influenceoors are all sold out, how do the newbies find bitcoin education?
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223 sats \ 4 replies \ @alexbit OP 21h
Stacker News, of course! And NOSTR.
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102 sats \ 2 replies \ @BTC_Bellzer 16h
Those will never be normies first stop
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby 16h
fair point. where do the normies go then?
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @BTC_Bellzer 16h
My guess is just a new round of influencers, and eventually MAYBE 1 doesn't sell out
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 20h
Based
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17 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 18h
Why so negative Nancy
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Entrep 2h
Spicy take, but fair: idiosyncratic risk stacks on top of BTC volatility, and correlation >1 on drawdowns is real.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @realBitcoinDog 4h
Saylor himself says DYOR and remember why you’re buying something
I’m saving in bitcoin for peace of mind. I don’t need to gamble on choice equities
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 4h
bitcoin Twitter died.
I'm not sure what goes there now but I don't think of it as anything like ~2014-2020
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Machiavelli23 9h
I really hope that once the treasury bubble pops I have enough money to make a big BTC purchase. I’m still buying whenever I have extra money but a big dip in price is welcome.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 18h
Yes the commodification of Bitcoin as a speculative commodity plaything is taking place and it's not a pretty sight. The Treasury strategy plays upon making Bitcoin exposure more simple and easier via conventional investment channels and using traditional and more innovative fund raising techniques. There is a question over whether these Treasury companies are not abusing the fundamental purpose of equities regulations by raising funds for a purely speculative purpose. Strategy still some core legitimacy in the software it develops but if you are just a shell company acting as a speculative vehicle there is a question over the legality of such a structure.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 19h
Name and shame them please
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 17h
I'm not on twitter and so I don't get exposed to any of the noise. Why would I buy some random shares in some random 'company'... when I could just buy spot Bitcoin?
What am I missing???
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 4h
100x gains ;-)
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