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42 sats \ 15 replies \ @CliffBadger 27 Sep \ parent \ on: Our Economy Has Never Needed an "Elastic" Currency econ
Why do I need the greatest violator of property rights to enforce property rights? It makes no sense. Citing Somalia as the prime example of statelessness is such a meme scare tactic. We're not even at Hyperbitcoinization yet. Have some imagination.
Fun fact: Somalia's economy improved relative to its neighbors after its government collapsed.
Even the lazy "What about Somalia?" pseudo-argument works against them when you make the right comparison.
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And you rushed to go live there?
US government drones sent to kill people in Somalia is just one example of US imperialism and how it uses its power projection to maintain resource hegemony over all other nations.
Yet your sock puppet Cliff chooses to remain with you in the USA and benefit from the wealth and extraordinary privilege of US imperialism than go anywhere with no government.
Libertarians are hypocrits.
Government is the major determining factor in the wealth of nations.
In Somalia with the removal of central government local customary, sharia, and tribal law continued to operate.
Just because there was no government with representatives before and subservient to the UN and other US controlled international institutions there was still government in local and provincial Somalia. And yet this is the best example Libertarians can come up with of no government because their idiotic ideology doesn't work.
In the absence of government the first thing people do is clamour to form one.
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there was still government in local and provincial Somalia. And yet this is the best example Libertarians can come up with of no government because their idiotic ideology doesn't work
But having one less government was still a plus.
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We're never the ones who invoke Somalia, but sure it's our fault when a statist's dumb talking point is demonstrated to be dumb.
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You cannot refute the facts and issues raised and so attack the messenger- you thus concede defeat, by default, in the context of a reason based contest of ideas.
If not Somalia can you give example of any functional and prosperous economy that has ever existed without the security and law and order provided by a government?
SILENCE
Because it does not work.
Successful economies and free markets depend fundamentally upon the security and property laws that a government can provide.
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If not Somalia can you give example of any functional and prosperous economy that has ever existed without the security and law and order provided by a government?
The Bitcoin economy. You're already in it. Buy bonds if you trust the government so much.
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Bitcoin is (potentially) a monetary system but it is not an economy.
Do you even understand the difference???
Even though Bitcoin was created to enable MoE independent of fiat, it is very rarely used in this manner and is almost entirely traded within the fiat system as a speculative commodity.
I previously pointed this out - but you don't seem capable of absorbing information.
Rather pointless to continue attempting a constructive dialogue with someone incapable of comprehending and acknowledging when they are wrong.
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Bitcoin is (potentially) a monetary system but it is not an economy. Do you even understand the difference???
I think this is just a cultural difference in how we process information. The EU is technically an economic alliance, but in my view that alone amounts to an encroachment on the sovereignty of each member state. You can claim that Bitcoin isn't an economy by your definition of economy, but if my entire life is structured around the price of Bitcoin, then as far as I'm concerned Bitcoin is the economy. It's less a matter of right and wrong, and more a difference in how we summarize and parse out the same information, but I think my way is more useful because it takes into account the massive imminent price increase of BTC, whereas when you focus on its current percieved status as a speculative commodity, it implies that the price is random, but I think you're overvaluing current popular opinion at the risk of missing the bigger picture.
That's a very fun fact. I should have known.
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'President Trump has remade Washington’s role in Latin America with a force not seen in decades, deploying U.S. military and economic weight with abandon and treating the region as an exclusive sphere of influence.
No American president has exerted as much pressure on the region since the height of the Cold War, when Ronald Reagan focused his efforts there on battling left-wing Central American insurgencies and the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua.
From the Mexican border to Patagonia, Trump is punishing adversaries with high tariffs, airstrikes and rhetorical broadsides while offering those he considers friends security aid and economic deals. One analyst called it, “The Donroe Doctrine,” a play on the 19th-century Monroe Doctrine guiding U.S. policy toward the region.
The region is crucial to the president’s goals of stopping migration and the flow of drugs into the U.S. while trying to counter China, which has deepened economic and diplomatic ties in Latin America the last two decades.
“We haven’t seen a U.S. president as brazen and as aggressive as Trump has been in Latin America,” said Michael Shifter, a senior scholar at the Inter-American Dialogue, a Washington policy group. “His mindset is that the region is the U.S.’s backyard and his strategic prerogative, in the name of protecting the homeland and boosting ‘America First.’ ”
Allies who flatter the president and align with his worldview—from Argentine President Javier Milei to El Salvador’s Nayib Bukele—are scoring deals and a warm embrace. Those who defy him—most notably Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula de Silva, Venezuelan strongman Nicolás Maduro and Colombia’s Gustavo Petro—find themselves in his crosshairs.'
You live in USA and thus benefit from US Imperialism and resource hegemony over other countries. The US government does not just bully and tax its citizens it bullys and taxes people globally.
And you benefit from that.
The price you can charge for cleaning a car is higher because of US hegemony and imperialism.
Own it.
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I don't claim one way or the other whether I personally benefit from imperialism or not. The math on that is besides the point. I'm just saying zero federal government would be more fair to everyone involved in general. I don't see why you have to make it personal.
Even if the U.S. government didn't exist, socialist regions would still end up poorer than the ones which embrace capitalism. You're aware of that, right? Or do you want to pretend that nationalization of industry is actually good economic policy? Do you think it's America's fault that Venezuela went to Hell?
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Re Venezuela it appears the current government there is corrupt although aside from that the economy is to a large extent limited in its potential by decades of capture by US oil corporates.
US imperialism began with Latin America and continues there to this day as its foundation...even as Trump cedes ground to China he signals his intention to retain hegemony over the Americas.
Venezuelas heavy crude can only be refined in the US and export via the Panama canal are blocked by US control of this strategic infrastructure.
China does present Venequela with an alternative market but before they could develop the required refining capacity for its heavy crude the US imperialists closed off access via Panama.
You can perhaps now see how governments and power projection and long term strategic positioning and control of infrastructure by governments is so important in terms of economic development and the wealth and prosperity of nations and their citizens.
It is not just 'free markets' because such things never exist in isolation from territorial governments.
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The most successful economies in history have been where good or at least competent governments work deliberately to support their merchants.
Examples are The British Empire, The USA since WW1 until the 1970s.
You might characterise these as socialist because in both cases government is active in both military power projection and diplomacy to enhance the commercial opportunities of its merchants internationally while also ensuring a strong and reliable legal system internally which enables capital markets, investment and construction of infrastructure which all combine to create wealth and prosperity greater than any anarchist 'free market' could without them.
Today the most successful economy globally is China, again a mixed economy where the government both consciously directs capital and strategic assets and infrastructure development and provides a stable internal rule of law and property rights which encourage free enterprise within limits deliberately preventing parasitic rentseeking, cartels and monopolies.
Today China dominates manufactured goods and commodity markets and is now challenging USA for global leadership as USA declines into a cesspit debt due to chronic trade and fiscal deficits.
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The blind leading the blind with outright lies and deluded sophistry.
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