The Swiss public will likely vote on the proposal this year, with a December poll finding 48% in favor of the cap. Should the law pass, Switzerland would have to limit the free movement of people when the 9.5 million threshold is crossed, denying entrance to newcomers. If that fails to bring down numbers, further measures, including terminating other bilateral agreements with the EU, could occur.
Wow here I thought we were in a population crises and here are the Swiss putting caps on their population!!
Alternate take.
We thought Europeans were enlightened. Unlike the US where racist laws require permission to enter... turns out the Swiss don't want to be flooded with "newcomers" either.
I am not a statist but I do reject the idea that moving to the ideal state of things in any order has equal consequences. If we lived in a free voluntary stateless society then yeah... the only borders that matter are property lines. But we don't live in that world. People flooding into a welfare state have consequences on the existing population. You don't have to be a xenophobic racist to think that. You can be, but one doesn't have to be.
I tire of these stupid debates.
Those that claim to be all about the will of the people seem to forget that when they don't like the "will of the people" as they define it.
Right. So back when Biden was reopening borders, EU was making deals with Tunisia, just like during Obama's mess in Syria, they made deals with Turkey. Lots of EU tax payer money went to enrich a few people in these countries in exchange for them reducing the migration volume.
I think that just like we shouldn't hold every American accountable for what Barbie cosplays ICEtards into doing, perhaps it would be good to not address "Europeans" as accountable for what some autistic girl says on the interwebs, no matter if we mean Greta or VdL by that. None of these actors represent the people on either side of the Atlantic.
To be clear, my intent was to mock left Americans regarding how they view Europe as some socialist utopia we can't have because of the dumb hicks in the US.
Its not. And they aren't a monolith.
What's funny is that in terms of welfare state, the median in the US isn't that different from the median in the EU. Funnier, nowadays the amount of taxes you pay in CA isn't much different from what you'd pay in EU/EEC member states with advanced economies.
It's a sad funny though, and I cannot help but feel that the biggest cause for all these geopolitical threats come from the inside more than the outside, again on both continents. Time will have to tell.
You remind me of a pattern I see from conservativea in Texas. Everytime I visit they talk like California is a communist hell hole where I pay a massive amount more in taxes. They talk Like it is North Korea. In reality it is more like a European country. I wish it wasn't but the reality is that Texas and most other states for many people aren't massively different. Few actually do the work to compare and figure out how much their choices are costing them. The size of the gap might surprise many.
Having worked with both, I often feel like even the politicians and high ranking state functionaries in Cali are very similar to German ones in their attitudes. Haha.
Its not all bad though, just there's a lot of waste that isn't getting addressed. Lots of ambition. Not always of the kind that actually helps people.
Hmm, not sure about that. Where are you getting that. Do most EU member states have progressive tax rates as we do here? Your income level makes a massive difference here.
And are you calculating total tax and fees in the EU including VAT and licensing fees. Not saying California has low taxes but many people are clueless about how comparable it is with other states depending on your income level.
A few years ago I did a comparison for myself regarding my cost of living in about 5 US states and was suprised by how comparable some states were to California on the tax/fee front. Most people read articles that generalize and go off that. Fine for a general idea but the devil is in the details.
I say this not to defend the dysfunctional state of California but rather to correct a misperception that other state don't have absurd states wasting resources as well. Its just easy to mock California vs admit your own home is not far behind it. Well on its way to being dysfunctional.
Yes, its all progressive tax on the income tax side in Europe, so the theft happens mostly on the top incomes.
VAT is shitty in EU for anything deemed luxury. Soft drinks are luxury in most countries but depending on where you are, so are many lactose free milk replacements.
I took CA as an example but you are right that the profile is not exclusive at all.
Amen.
This is what bugs me most about both sides in US politics. They straw man all the time
The vast majority of people most places don't care all that much compared to the small number of loud mouths.
UK recently removed welfare caps, the cap was 2 children per househould, not it is uncapped, because Muslim migrant households need assistance for 3 or more children
If you're you and you owe your creditors 1 million and you can't pay up, you're fucked.
If you're the UK and you owe your creditors 100% of your GDP and you can't pay up, they're fucked.
I agree, UK is trying to destroy itself culturally and financially and in some cases actual physical harm
One of my buddies from there said the other day "it always gets worse before it gets better".
I disappointed him with my opinion that I am not convinced that this is the low for them. I think that that's a broader problem though: nothing is at the bottom yet but everything I inspect seems in decline.
I remember a friend from high school said to me, I could never live in England because they don't have a constitution or Bill of Rights
I thought he was being paranoid at the time
Hahah
*now it is uncapped...
Good point
What happens if there is significant advancements in longevity and they start pushing the limit as people have kids and old people don't die off as quick?
Are they going to restrict having kids or tell the olds they gotta go? Haha
If your social credit score drops below a certain level, the SMART city council will send a robot to zap and zip you out of your mortal existence
Hahahaha crazy!!
the purpose is to restrict or pause immigration
it's not about longevity or number of children
You have to off an old person (or other undesirable)before you can get your permit to reproduce.
Sounds like a movie plot.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462482/
Fred Durst? Man this must be so bad.
Fred Durst provided the most succinct description of modernity ever
Did it all for the nookie?
Not that one. That's probably a bit more timeless.
One child policy ring a bell?
Clamping down on immigration from alien cultures ring a bell?
ICE!
They haven't gotten the memo yet and are still worried about overpopulation. That was sooo three years ago.
I am assuming the birthrate for Switzerland is well under replacement if I had to guess?
Yep. From Grok:
Or perhaps they see the rest of Europe swamped with alien cultures and that weakens you in any future war or conflicts and so you only allow immigration if it is limited and strictly in the best interests of cultural strength and harmony.
Everyone trying to out-China the CCP. The gov has no business in family planning. Interested to see the outcome here.
Nor restrict the freedom of movement!
Cultural unity is a definite strategic advantage in times of conflict.
It is the latest of a few 'eco-populist' proposals by the right wing conservative party. If you read the actual text, it embeds the proposal in ecological reasoning - paraphrased "to guarantee a sustainable population growth, especially in protection of the environment...". Putting a technocratic cap on pop growth is an easy no from me though.
Yeah me too I often thought Switzerland would be a great place to live but with dumb policy like this I’m starting to reconsider
Cultural unity is a definite strategic advantage in times of conflict.
And the world is becoming increasingly unstable and prone to conflict as US wealth, power and hegemony disintegrates.
the referendum is about pausing immigration from non European nations