Hi all,
As most of the people here (I hope), I've been swallowed by the Bitcoin rabbit hole and I'm now seeing myself studying Austrian Theory of Economy, Game Theory, Cryptography and all the things I didn't even know existed before Bitcoin.
I'm trying to better understand the Libertarianism Theory and how it's linked to full private property, how the monetary system should emerge from the markets and not imposed by govs, how any central planning from govs is ultimately a failure (or to say the least, inefficient and subject to corruption, bribery).
At this point I'm honestly struggling in even imagining a society where all the things above take place. I'm used to a good degree of free Healthcare and Education, Security (in terms of "i can call police for free if i need" and "i get a free lawyer if I'm accused of something"), pension: all in exchange for a cut in the profits from my job (tax). And this ensures - or at least tries to - that if I'm in a situation where I need something of critical importance (say, I badly broke my leg, or thieves are breaking into my flat or my child is turning 6 and should go to school) and I can't afford it, I somehow manage to get it done anyway. And this involves morality basically, because we are discussing fundamental rights (health, education, safety and so on); we are not talking about wanting the latest expensive phone and requiring the government to provide it.
In a full privatized society where the State does not "own" or directly control via its employees those areas, but are basically delegated to the private sector and hence the market, demand and offer, how are fundamental rights guaranteed? Who is willing to cure me if I do not have money right now? Which school will let my children in if I cannot afford it?
Is this type of reasoning even possible or should we completely shift perspective and allow people to be fully responsible for themselves? Like accept the fact that if you're poor you're cut out from things.
Or, if those things are still possible via taxation but the State (central bank) is not in control of the money supply and cannot intervene in transactions (let's say we adopt bitcoin) how is ensured that people pay taxes? Coercion, ultimately?
Even if I'm starting to like the Libertarianism concepts and understand the importance of the full sovereignty of people, I'm still doubtful on if a society like this would even work; if it's just utopia or ome degree of centralization/delegation to the public State is needed at the end.
Let's discuss about it! Hope to get also some material to study on if those questions have already been answered properly.
Start by asking yourself what’s different about those things than the necessities that you are expected to provide for yourself (food, clothing, housing, etc.)
Some of these issues are tricky but most are just a lack of imagination.
Edit: there are tons of free resources on this stuff at mises.org. I recommend starting with Economics in One Lesson and also making discussions like this on Stacker News. Many of us are interested in these questions and it’s fun having new initiates to talk to.
Thanks for the suggestion and for your open question!
You got me on this one, the more I tried to find a difference between (say) having to acquire food daily and having my broken bone put back in place, the more I struggled to find one!
Ok, if i can't afford food I can somehow produce it by myself (but in the context of life/death, is more efficient to steal it than farm or raise it, from a time perspective), but I am ultimately limited. Same thing for health or security, there is some degree of "feasibility" but at the end, in the context of the division of labor, I am really relying on everyone else even for the basic things needed for necessity.
But how do we ensure that the basics are met also for people who cannot afford them?
Ultimately my question is: I am happy having to cut my profit via taxation to get some service back, because even though I can pay for that service directly (and maybe have a better service even), i can one day find myself in a situation for which that service is provided to me even if I am not able to pay that tax right now. It's like a form of collective insurance. This is imposed by a civilized State in some way or another, but in a free market, does this emerge? How can it work? Sometimes bad luck happens from day 0 or is not in our hand to control it.
Because I generally have a bad opinion on central gov that enforces things (cause today may be good, tomorrow may be bad) but I don't see how relying on people's trust and expect them to help you out will actually solve the thing (even imagining some sort of i help you now you pay back later)
If it resembles other radically ideological mass movements then it probably ends with the most opportunistic and violent elements coopting it into something even more tyrannical than the old state but with new rationalizations, as those tend to be the most politically involved and influential.
You know how you can tell who the bad guys are? They'll offer you free healthcare. The guy who says fuck off and pay for it yourself, he's the person who will leave you alone and isn't trying to use you as cannon fodder.
Well it's not a matter of free Healthcare per se. Someone is paying for it (the people, in general), you pay for it somehow (not your own directly) or you pay for it later.
And even if sounds inconvenient (why should I have my profit cut for a service I do not need) it's more like "one day I may need it and can't afford it" and that day ma be even day0, when you have not even started to "provide" for society
How much time do you have?
Level 1: shouldn't, don't care, don't give a shit.
Level 2: compared to what?
Nirvana fallacy kills everything; not even ideal, romanticized, socialist-utopia Nordics do a particularly good job at fixing what you call "fundamental rights" (which aren't fundamental... they can't be if by providing them you're infringing on others' fundamental rights).
Level 3: plenty of resources out there to imagine, theorizing about the mechanics of a free society: Choice by Bob Murphy does a good job, Machinery of Freedom. Lectures on these topics.
The tldr is that your "fundamental rights" are, like any other market good, better served by prices and property rights and competition than taxation, regulation, and central planning.The tldr is that your "fundamental rights" are, like any other market good, better served by prices and property rights and competition than taxation, regulation, and central planning.
Level 4: my best recommendation for you is _Guido Hülsmann's _Abundance, Generosity, and the State, a 400-page serious inquiry into empathy and how we can live together #860406. I'm sure there's a 1-hour lecture somewhere, e.g., at Mises U
Appreciate the insights and resources provided.
So let me put like this: our civilized society that we think respects (or at least tries to) our fundamentals rights is basically based on the fact that the problems are just exported to someone else (or a different process) in which the respect of those fundamentals is not really enforced. It's like we are happy with our garbage being collected and managed by State simply because we are in the country that exports it to other countries, not the one that is being paid to throw it in its lands and have its people live on top of it?
For a New Liberty - Rothbard