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The final outcome is as yet undecided.

It's decided. If the PRC isn't protecting the IRGC then it's over. Iran either gets regime change and starts to recover and become a rich country and a US ally, or they just get bombed every time they try to rebuild their military. Either way, the result for the PRC is unsustainably high oil prices.

what creates wealth is producing more than you consume and USA has not done that for over 50 years

There's a lot to unpack here. I think you're employing a degree of envious commie brainrot logic, where working in a greasy factory with your hands is somehow inherently more productive or deserving of income than sending emails from a desk. More difficult and less pleasant doesn't mean more productive. I do agree the people of China work harder and it counts for something, but that's not what makes a society wealthy. You need a system that protects property rights so that work is actually meaningful on an individual level. Otherwise why would any person with self-esteem voluntarily participate in your society? The best you can hope for is support from people with some ethnic grudge, and even they would rather live in the West.

When you factor in Strategy the US owns five times as much Bitcoin as China. God knows what the disparity looks like if we consider individual and state accumulation, not to mention US allies. Bitcoin is a serious logistical weapon that you, being a dumb commie, still think is only a subplot in this war, because you want a petroyuan as revenge for the petrodollar. That's not how it works. The old system is dead for everyone. You're celebrating a seizure of muskets when we've already moved on to rifles.

where working in a greasy factory with your hands is somehow inherently more productive or deserving of income than sending emails from a desk.

wow!!! what a response!

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I wish I could find the meme, but I'm thinking of the one where the ancoms are digging a ditch, and an ancap asks why they're using shovels instead of machines. They claim they're creating jobs. Ancap asks, "In that case, why not use spoons?"

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You are right- state capitalism can be done sloppily but it can also be done well.
Chinas annual trade surplus is $1 Trillion dollars.
USA has not had a trade surplus for 50 years.
USA cannot build any more Interceptors because it has no refined rare earths.
China will not supply any buyer who may end up providing them to the US military.
Iran and Hezbollah can knock out US-Israeli targets with $7000 Shahed drones and USA cannot replace them.

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What do we need interceptors for if your missiles can't reach us? Oh yeah it's the commies' own "compatriots" who deal with all the risks of getting shot at. Apparently we love China more than you do, if you'd sooner kill them than allow them to not be communist.

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I don't have any missiles...except an airgun and crossbow for hunting rabbits and Turkeys.

The NZ military has a few old cargo planes and Korean war era tanks.
We prefer to trade than bomb people.
We sure as hell do not want to join in the Zionist Greater Israel -Big Oil war crimes US-Israeli military are now engaged in.

China will not supply US military industrial combine with rare earths and other essential supply chains because China knows USA has lost the trade war and its only alternative is military aggression and attacks upon Chinese trading partners.
The Chinese remember the Opium Wars and have learned and prepared how to respond to western imperialism.

'The practical realities of military operations form the next strategic layer – war logistics. Sun Tzu devoted significant attention to supply lines, equipment maintenance, and resource management, recognizing that even the most brilliant strategy fails without proper logistical support. His calculations about requiring “a thousand fast chariots, a thousand heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand armored troops” with corresponding supply needs demonstrate sophisticated understanding of military economics.'

https://ancientwarhistory.com/the-timeless-military-wisdom-of-sun-tzu-strategy-tactics-and-modern-applications/

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https://archive.ph/iNTTs

https://archive.ph/8BY5s

The truth is complex.

'The practical realities of military operations form the next strategic layer – war logistics. Sun Tzu devoted significant attention to supply lines, equipment maintenance, and resource management, recognizing that even the most brilliant strategy fails without proper logistical support. His calculations about requiring “a thousand fast chariots, a thousand heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand armored troops” with corresponding supply needs demonstrate sophisticated understanding of military economics.'

USA has no interceptors left.
USA cannot make more because China will not supply the refined rare earths required.

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Hard to keep refining rare earths when your citizens would rather drive a car into a playground than keep working for your hellhole of a socialist utopia. The communists are essentially in insurrection-supression mode all the time because everyone has a personalized reason to hate them and no one has an outlet for change. Whatever tactical advantage you think you possess is dead in the water if your society revolves around constant coercion for the greater good. People don't like being told to die for someone else's right to command them to die. The most patriotic members of society are living in a bubble where for some reason communism worked out for them. It's not working in the eyes of God.

The bottom line is you can't use GDP growth to justify tyranny. Besides being untrue, God doesn't like it. The interceptors aren't the issue.

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As an observer I would suggest most Chinese have accepted economic advancement is a priority over the supposed 'freedoms' of the western citizen. Certainly many go to the west and enjoy greater individual freedoms and personal wealth and opportunity but most Chinese are highly patriotic and identify strongly with their cultural origins.
They are proud of the economic advances China has made and do not want China to become yet another paper tiger puppet to US imperialism like S.Korea, Taiwan or Japan.
They want full and true sovereignty and the right to Chinas self determination and development free of western dictates and bullying.
China is perhaps the only nation with the cultural depth and scale to seek to achieve this and USA knows it is a threat to the US model of global hegemony- thus the current military attacks upon Chinas trading partners and energy supplies.

I would also suggest that most Iranians share similar cultural pride based viewpoint, knowing the price paid when you allow a US puppet government to gain power over you and allow the extraction of your national wealth and lose the right to self determination.

#1465896

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As an observer I would suggest most Chinese have accepted economic advancement is a priority over the supposed 'freedoms' of the western citizen.

It doesn't matter if it's a majority. We're not talking about the freedom to smoke pot. We're talking about not having to worry about getting sent to a concentration camp with no due process because your pastor committed a wrongthink. (Cue some retarded comparison to something the US did 100 years ago to one or two people under a Democrat presidency.)

Cuba, Iran, Venezuela and North Korea were not free, sovereign countries simply by virtue of not hosting a US military base. It doesn't look like the totalitarian dictorship is only a means to an end of opposing US influence. Rather, it seems they oppose the US only because they want to maintain their totalitarian dictorship.

And they gave up their freedom for nothing, because the US is still able to overpower them and the PRC militarily.

In any case, Taiwan hasn't accepted the argument and doesn't want to become a puppet state of the communist party. The communists have absolutely nothing of value to offer them. So if (when) the reds insist that "self-determination" means taking more clay, the US will make sure they end up in a new Nuremberg Trial.

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What about ICE in USA today?
A New Zealand citizen who has been living as a legal resident in the US for decades has recently been incarcerated by ICE.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/593630/locked-up-for-22-hours-a-day-what-life-is-like-for-new-zealander-everlee-wihongi-detained-in-ice-facility

NZ authorities are warning NZers not to travel to the US as the new visa rules mean you are required to show all social media posts for the last 5 years and can face immediate ban and forced removal from US with zero right of appeal. The USA is becoming a police state.

The assumed 'freedoms' and 'rights' westerners think make them superior to other nations are in fact largely only a result of centuries of resource hegemony and wealth extraction from third world nations.

China is showing a new model where you develop your economy on your terms- you do not dictate to trade partners what they should do and certainly do not invade them, assassinate their leaders or kidnap and threaten them with being bombed back to the stone ages.

China mercantile approach treats all other nations with respect for their sovereignty unlike the current US government and its approach for at least the last 50 years since it became the global superpower.

We in NZ refused to allow US nuclear warships into our ports so you cancelled our military alliance (ANZUS) and refused to enter a trade deal.
So we entered the first free trade deal between a 5 eyes western nation and have enjoyed huge economic benefit ever since.

Ultimately US power is a mix of soft and hard power and you are squandering the soft power under Trump, alienating those who were formerly closely aligned to your values- because your values has changed to that of a global bully and authoritarian despot.

I hope the US wakes up from its reactionary militaristic insanity before it is reduced to pariah state status...but maybe that is what is required before you will return to some sort of human decency?

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What about ICE in USA today?

The anecdote is even dumber than I expected. Yes, in order to avoid becoming Europe, and during wartime, the US adopted some of the tactics traditionally used by dictatorships, such as deporting people that came here illegally.

Ultimately US power is a mix of soft and hard power and you are squandering the soft power under Trump, alienating those who were formerly closely aligned to your values- because your values has changed to that of a global bully and authoritarian despot.

Nonsense. We were hated long before Trump started defending the border. The things you're calling "values" are patterns that were literally killing us. No country can survive the toxic combination of mass immigration and a nanny state. You would not tolerate mass immigration from Japan to your country.

In what sick world is Trump a despot and the IRGC are freedom fighters?

NZ authorities are warning NZers not to travel to the US as the new visa rules mean you are required to show all social media posts for the last 5 years and can face immediate ban and forced removal from US with zero right of appeal. The USA is becoming a police state.

They should tell you to migrate to California and start planning arson and assassinations with the other leftists. You won't get deported from here.

You don't actually believe Trump is a dictator. You're literally just butthurt that you lost the election because you wanted us to sell out Taiwan, because you have some kind of ethnic grudge and you're convinced that stomping on the best of Asia militarily is actually a way to stick it to the white man, even though the half-white US is a minority of the anti-communist coalition.

Don't worry, the US will be balkanized and irrelevant soon enough. It doesn't matter. Support from a third of the US is more than enough to topple the PRC. Again, the communists' fight is with God, not the US. They're doomed.

China is showing a new model where you develop your economy on your terms- you do not dictate to trade partners what they should do and certainly do not invade them, assassinate their leaders or kidnap and threaten them with being bombed back to the stone ages.

Oh boo-hoo. Poor "ser rico es malo" Maduro got kidnapped when he was just minding his own business not hurting anyone, trying to lift Venezuela out of poverty. Who is this argument for? There's no way you actually believe this.

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Look in the tech and administration departments of your universities.
Lots of Chinese faces.

Look in the tech departments of Apple, Google, Meta etc - predominantly Chinese faces.
Modern China celebrates and encourages engineering and technical learning skills.
Chinese kids love to learn science and engineering.

They now run the engine rooms of your top companies and learning centres.
You lost the trade war and the skills war.
Without those Chinese engineers and technicians you would not be able to produce anything anymore.

Your entire country has been infiltrated with Chinese in positions of power and without them you would collapse in a sad sprawling heap of ideocracy.

Even with them you are.

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Uh huh, racial resentment. I get it. I can relate.

What does that have to with your attempts at turning Taiwan communist? We don't care that you're better at math. That's not the reason we're going to war. We're going to war because you're the antagonistic dictatorial rogue state, not us.