pull down to refresh

In another thread I mentioned a takeaway that stuck with me having read at some point about the merits of 2:2 multisig, as opposed to 2:3
... but for the life of me I can't find it. Not sure if it was here, twitter, or elsewhere.
The gist was that the added complexity of managing 2:3 makes it less failure proof 2:2 and that the redundancy is a paradox. There was more to it than that, and so I'd like to re-read it.
Others requested it as well per the conversation in the other thread: #323877
I'm putting up 6150 sats for the best steel man of 2:2 vs. 2:3 in an effort to crowdsource a search.
2:2 is probably just as good as 2:3 if you don't have a third secure location to keep the third private key.
reply
I look forward to this discussion.
reply
This is an older podcast, but one of my favorites. Michael talks allot about about 2:2 multisig on his episode 'Every Bitcoin Hardware Wallet Sucks". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0HsoGWqhh4
reply
2:2 will not let you recover anything if a key is lost. 2:3 allows you to recover in the event of a lost private key.
With taproot, you can split the 2:3 into three 2:2 unlocking scripts, so that if you lose one of the keys entirely (pubkey as well) you can still spend without it. (though you need to backup the merkle proof, so it may be a moot point).
Once Frost becomes more supported, you can setup a 2:3 without using a script, protecting the privacy of your keys (which is great).
2:2 can work if you have additional recovery paths in your script, but you may as well setup a 2:3.
In order of greatness, Frost 2:3 > Taproot Tree 2:3 > segwit 2:3
reply
2:2 could be just a seed + passphrase. Passphrases can also be used for decoy wallets.
Any multisig also needs a copy of the xpub from each signing device. So a 2:3 might be more secure, its just also more complex.
reply
A single 24 word seed with a 12 word paraphrase will offer the same security with less risk of using a 2-3 multisig. If you must, use Shamir backup instead
reply
One thing I have found is that 2:3 requires the xpubs for each key to be part of your backup...
Meaning 3 sets of 12 words PLUS a very long and non-readable string for each is a much more complicated storage/restore than two sets of 12 words.
If the biggest risk to your coin is you, then the complexity of 2:3 exacerbates this relative to a 2:2 that otherwise has most of the same benefits.
deleted by author
reply
120 sats \ 1 reply \ @TSW 22 Nov 2023
Single-sig vs. Multi-sig It is crucial to safeguard your bitcoin assets so that:
  • You feel comfortable when purchasing power increases tenfold.
  • You have confidence in securely managing your bitcoin in the coming decades.
  • You have arranged your bitcoin legacy.

Multi-sig

When properly set up, multi-sig provides the following security benefits:
  • Protection against a 'single point of failure.'
  • Protection against loss/theft of private keys.
  • Protection against 'evil maid' attacks.
  • Protection against physical attacks.
  • Protection against phishing.
  • Protection against malware.
Multi-sig also offers additional functionality possibilities, such as:
  • Configurable co-signing: reduces the need to travel for the minimum required signatures and having multiple wallets, which is a risk in itself.
  • (Automated) inheritance planning.

Single-sig

The main reason cited for using single-sig vs. multi-sig is that multi-sig is too complex and thus carries additional risks. However, this is a false sense of security because securely managing a single-sig requires additional complexity, such as:
  • Adding a passphrase so that access to the seed does not grant access to the bitcoin.
  • Creating multiple physical copies of the seed so that if one backup is lost, the bitcoin are not lost.
Passphrases bring multiple risks: Are they random and complex enough to resist brute force attacks? Many hardware wallets offer the option to use BIP39 words, making it easy to enter the passphrase. However, if you use <12 words, your passphrase is weaker than a 12-word seed phrase. There is no standard for securely storing passphrases. You have your seed in steel, what do you do with your passphrase? On paper? On the computer? In your head? How do you guarantee that no one gains unauthorized access? Physical copies of seeds and passphrases: If you lose your seed or passphrase, you can no longer access your bitcoin. Therefore, additional locations are needed to store your passphrase separately from your seed phrase. Additional locations that you must secure and check regularly.

Single-sig vs. Multi-sig

The complexity required to set up a secure single-sig is not lower than setting up a multi-sig. In fact, because you can use standards for multi-sig, it is, in our opinion, a safer solution. The biggest technical drawback of multi-sig is that you need the so-called 'wallet descriptor' to restore your wallet; this issue has been solved by @SeedHammer .
reply
It is crucial to safeguard your bitcoin assets
My what? Bitcoin assets?
reply
Multisig in a purely technical context is about non-reliance on either a single source of entropy or exfiltration.
Say you do something dumb like store a large amount of Bitcoin in a mobile wallet, well some employee at Google or Apple, or maybe even just an exploit of the device's software, could exfiltrate your key to their servers and sweep your coin without any evidence.
Had you a 2:2 multisig, the phone key alone would be inadequate to sweep.
It could be even less dumb than that, say a clean linux install on a name brand PC with an Intel, AMD, or ARM chip that has NSA-level skewing of the random number generator. Even if it was airgapped, your key could be re-created by an attacker and scanned for outputs.
It could also be a honeypot like a HWW that stealth shipped a similar backdoor.
By using 2+ signatures, no single attack is adequate... it's about requiring multiple coordinated attacks or collusion which vastly increases your security threshold.
Memory is not a storage strategy no matter how much people want to think it is, as there are factors like future cognitive impairment and inheritance scenarios that rule it out for anyone needing a serious setup. 
For passphrasing stuff with encryption, that can be done at a higher layer like keeping encrypted instructions on a cloud drive. The problem with that is password patterns from the 80s are still the zeitgeist.
This old XKCD summarizes my view on passwords:
reply
So I just talked to someone about the password scheme, in the XKCD cartoon above. He said it's NOT 44 bits of entropy, because it's 4 dictionary words, instead of the same number of random characters. Thoughts?
reply
the spaces make it one big not-dictionary word
reply
deleted by author
reply
No that's still single sig and probably a bad idea all around.
reply
deleted by author
reply
Holy cow, I have never thought of this
reply
Wow, this must be one of the riskiest setups that I have heard of:
  • You talk about backups of your seeds but the weakness is in backup in the passphrase
  • Passphrases are not standardized and people use weak passphrases every time
  • You need three additional secure locations to secure your passphrases. In this set-up you require six secure locations
  • There are no standards for this set-up to backup the descriptor, so another thing you need to keep track off
reply
Its 3-of-3 multisig with different passphrases, you can't really bruteforce that even if they were somewhat weak.
No secure locations needed, be smart... You should only "store" passphrases in your own head. Make them complex yet easy to remember.
You could even use a lengthy quote from a movie or book as a passphrase, so even if you forget parts of it, you can always look it up online.
deleted by author
reply
deleted by author
reply
Super interesting. The more you know...
reply
deleted by author
reply
deleted by author
reply