So maybe this is the business - whose in? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

So maybe this is the business - whose in?

44 sats \ 10 comments \ @thecommoner 17 Jul bitcoin

As some of you may know...My wife and I own a 4 unit building....all 4 are 2bed 1bath about 1050 sq ft... The building is in good shape, the unit are in good shape... the market rent is at 1195 (which is about $100-$200 less than we could probably get...

That is all to say that the building is worth $500k in our eyes but likely we could get closer to 600 based on sales in the area....and we owe a little under 200k on it...

So - here is what I am thinking...

Start a non-profit and raise 500-600K of tax deductible donations and have the non-profit buy the property from me....the non-profit owns it outright - the state of wisconsin has a clause/rule/law that non-profits do not have to pay property taxes on sites of less than 40 acres in any one municiple tax area or something like that - so the non-profit would have 0 property taxes - so basically you are looking at utilities and maintenance for expenses which run around 2-4k/year depending on turnover of units...

I would run the non-profit - and run the property as I have been with my wife for the last almost 8 years now and now is the fun (BITCOIN) part!!!!

This could/would/should all be done in Bitcoin....The "tax deductible donation" will be in Bitcoin - right now thats about 8.5 bitcoin.... - or maybe it is a hybrid for the seed funding... 190k in USD to pay off the mortgage - 10k to seed the dirty FIAT bank account for utilities and maintenance expenses for roughly 2-3 years... 5 BTC rounds out the purchase or sale of the building to the non-profit...maybe a little less depending on how much "skin" my wife and I are required to put into the organization as well...likely some amount as a tax deductible donation to help offset the capital gains we would have to pay on the sale of the building....

This leaves a 4 unit bldg...renting for (let's call it) $4500.00/month - $54,000/yr which is what...right now...about 0.8 BTC/year.... Which means the non-profit recoups the initial 500-600k or 200k USD and 5 BTC in (conservatively) 10 years.... thats without any future rent increases....or any future appreciated value of BTC....

This also brings me to the incentive structure I have previously mentioned (and still need someone to develope the app to handle all the math???)... but that allows the tenants to pay in BTC (and with the 10K funding of the checking account would allow for 100% of the tenants to pay nearly 100% of their rent in BTC and share in future price appreciation for upto 6 months after those payments) and it still breaks even in 10 years or less....and then simply uses future appreciated value of that BTC to fund additional purchases of properties and to convert them to 100% BTC and promote the tenants to adopt and use BTC which just keeps strengthening the network????

I don't see why this doesn't work? I don't see why people aren't utilizing this concept already....I am a freakin' dummy but I don't see how this doesn't win and keep working and what could stop it....anyone, someone - poke a hole in it or rip it to shreds???

It gets even better - as once the original "donation" is "paid" back or whatever you want to call it....the property would be 100% protected against losing its value as there are no loans on it....and the non-profit could likely hold rents stable or even begin to reduce rents depending on BTC price/tax treatment/cpa gains laws...etc....

Even if the shit hits the fan the day after this transaction happens - being 100% btc should allow the non-profit to weather the storm...it just takes a longer time frame to recoup the initial seed donation....if income/rents drop in half you just double the time frame....but being BTC the non-profit is already looking at infinity for a time frame to be able to operate....

So....who is in?

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64 sats \ 3 replies \ @Coinsreporter 17 Jul

That's a great great idea! It's very generous to put your private property as NGO. Interesting!

Just thinking that after 10 years the price of Bitcoin may be at 500k and the NGO would be in less than profit dollar wise but Bitcoin would be much more valuable.

I'm not sitting there so can't frame how to be in!

24 sats \ 2 replies \ @thecommoner OP 17 Jul

I would imagine after 10 years BTC value in FIAT terms would be significantly higher and the non-profit (and hopefully many, many others like it) would be eating up all the properties they could and demonetizing them from the FIAT systems they are/were in....

53 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 17 Jul

Yes, that's what I can see happening. What about a non US person to be a part of the NGO. What's your plan?

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 17 Jul

I am not familiar with laws outside the US - I imagine that if something like this catches on in the US that other countries would feel pressure to run something along these lines in their countries....I suppose many countries you kind of lease the property/land from the government so there would be some hiccups I suppose...but I imagine people armed with the information of this "better bitcoin system" of renting or even owning (as this could be done once banks are based on bitcoin) - imagine if the bank gave you a 50/50 split of money/btc you paid them every month and counted it as "extra" payment towards your loan....every one in the US anyway would start using that bank first and then some better model that was even more competitive would come out and it would be a race to the end with actual winners vs. the current race to the end with no winners....

42 sats \ 5 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Jul

As long as you are aware that nonprofits are heavily scrutinized. One famous nonprofit who fought IRS and other tax authorities was the church of Scientology

13 sats \ 4 replies \ @thecommoner OP 17 Jul

I work for a couple of non-profits right now and understand some of the scrutiny they face.... I think building one based on Bitcoin and based in Bitcoin's ethos is a recipe for infinite success and continued growth and prosperity for all who utilize/interact with it.

Tangent --- I think a whole lot of "regulation" and "laws" are/have been put in place as an emergent behavior of the current monetary/financial system and its base layer "technology" being the good faith and whatever the fuck the people programmed in those systems want or try to believe....

Bitcoin - overwrites all those systems....rewrites - all those programs.... and replaces it with ones that simply cannot be manipulated.... so with Bitcoin as the base protocol of all those systems - the people/businesses that are programmed and operate within or upon them, and that are successful in the long term, do so by enacting emergent behaviors/rules/regulations that are the best aligned with the network.

This takes me back a little as well to my thoughts on the incentives bitcoin companies are currently utilizing to try and drive their growth....and how most companies providing incentives are doing so by providing incentives based on the old "FIAT" models and how I think that those are going to prove out to be unsustainable for the "long term." (but this would be another tangent :) and I will stop here)

Back to your comment though....and hopefully some find these thoughts helpful.... It is not a surprise to me that us (humans-supercomputers running on inputs based on a protocol that is able to be manipulated) would have started "nonprofits" that attempted to manipulate the system(s) they were working within...and my hope/belief is that the model I suggested and hope to start up is closely aligned with the network protocol it is going to operate on/in and therefor will be among the most succesful and long-lasting systems built upon and adopted by a majority of the users of said network.

But that's just my two sats.... :)

42 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Jul

Sounds like you have lot of knowledge and experience in this field

FYI: trying to establish a non-profit cannabis company? Ha, good luck with that

13 sats \ 2 replies \ @thecommoner OP 17 Jul

I am sorry - I wouldn't consider myself as having a lot knowledge in anything really....

Wasn't trying to come across in that way for sure - just got on a bit of a rant :(

I guess - I think all businesses should not be in business for the profit....they should be in business because they provide "value" to someone or some group of someone's that are willing to pay them for that value? Maybe it is splitting hairs/hares?

I guess this business model as I originally described could also be started as normal or for-profit business but when I try to build that business in my head it always gets jumbled up when I try to figure out how to reconcile the need to provide a "profit" or "return" to the investor....with operating on a deflationary monetary system that "as it grows it also grows in value" until it is the value and when that happens....and you stop increasing the rent and start decreasing the income in BTC terms... you are no longer able to provide a "return" you will simply be providing value until these items reach their "marginal cost of production" in which case your product or service needs to be providing the most value to its users or it will fail...and it needs to do that in a self-sustaining or circular way or it will fail....