Poverty in Argentina soars to over 50% as Milei’s austerity measures hit hard \ stacker news ~econ

Poverty in Argentina soars to over 50% as Milei’s austerity measures hit hard www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/27/poverty-rate-argentina-milei

799 sats \ 43 comments \ @south_korea_ln 23h econ

“It is dangerous territory. The question is, will this belt-tightening have any benefit? What comes next? Can he actually control public sector spending? Can he shore up the currency? Without doing that, you’ve just created poverty,” he said.

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250 sats \ 24 replies \ @didiplaywell 20h

It's, of course, a mix of manipulation and lies. If you know me from other comments on politics, I'm unabashedly pejorative when this kind of things come out. But this time I don't have adjectives, I'm genuinely horrified at this level of manipulation.
Poverty didn't "soared to over 50%", it decreased from 56% last year to 52% up to this month. You know the gig: you can't derive conclusions from an isolated data point but from tendency. Taking isolated data is a predilect manipulation strategy from media. I know you know that but in this case I concede it's so obscene that one can't not think they would be playing games and that they have a limit. They don't. Never trust media.
No last resort help has been cut whatsoever, anywhere. That's not even manipulation, it's straight up a lie. Continued and increased assistance is the reason the country as been steadily stabilizing and there has not been social unrest other than the protests organized by the syndicate mobs which are losing their feudal schemes.
Never trust media. Ever.

41 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 16h

I already didn’t trust the article when I saw that it’s from The Guardian. Thanks for setting the record straight

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 14h

Always Sr 🫡

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve 20h

Bias is one thing. Blatant manipulation and lies are more serious and should be dismissed.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @didiplaywell 19h

I honestly can not believe it. This is an orwellian level of manipulation of information. My first lecture is that they are desperate because, indeed, this is working, and they have interests that depend on Milei being proved wrong.

41 sats \ 2 replies \ @_b_o_n_e_s_ 17h

journalist Matt Kennard talks about this exact thing. there's probably many journos who discuss this, but ive listened to couple of his podcast interviews

he started in Financial Times but is now with an independent org and his angle is that essentially corporate interests, eg the Gates Foundation when it comes to The Guardian, control the media and what can and can't be said and that one of the prime ways they do it is by what they leave out of a story

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 13h

Poverty soars above 50 percent

What was the poverty rate before? Hyperinflation means more people fall below the so called poverty line.

Let’s interview all the overpaid government workers who have to seek productive jobs

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 14h

Exactly.

20 sats \ 5 replies \ @south_korea_ln OP 20h

Thanks for setting things straight. Good to have reports from boots on the ground.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 17h

The Guardian's problem is not boots on the ground. They can spread lies and manipulation from wherever, Argentina, England, doesn't matter. The problem is the writer not the location

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @didiplaywell 14h

Yes but I think he means that I'm here reporting first hand accounts which is the best way to counter misinformation.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 13h

I understand

My point is the Guardian location doesn’t matter. A Guardian reporter in Argentina will still criticize Milei policies such as ending rent control and monetary and fiscal austerity.

Reporting from Argentina, Milei has vetoed a right to free housing

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 13h

Exactly.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 19h

At your service Sr, and thank you for bringing up the subject, we didn't saw it here yet and I presume they might have tried to limit demographic visibility to avoid immediate backlash from us, so that they can achieve the desired impact effect, which is the one that will shape public opinion the most even if latter proved false. It's a classic manipulation strategy, we know all of them here...

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 13h

You can never hate the corporate media enough. They are the enemy of the people.

Syndicate mob of ex government employees

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

https://archive.is/6Yrop

Rent control in Argentina

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @oliverweiss 14h

Maybe you could provide some data too?

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 13h

You don’t care about the data because no amount of it will change your mind about Javier or anyone you despise

The fact that you wanted the status quo to remain in place in Argentina speaks volumes of your character and ideology

21 sats \ 6 replies \ @didiplaywell 13h

Let's take the exact same data the article is citing: if you click the link that says "to almost 53%" right at the beginning, it leads you to this article from Reuters. In the article, they state that they take the tendency from "The Catholic University of Argentina's (UCA) observatory":

The Catholic University of Argentina's (UCA) observatory had estimated the poverty rate soared to 55.5% in the first quarter of the year before easing to 49.4% in the second quarter, giving a 52% average for the first six months of this year.

You can start seeing the cracks there. Now it turns out that if we increase the resolution, closer to the beginning of the mandate we were up 3 points from now. Stretching the data is a classical manipulation to conceal tendency. This is coming explicitly from their own source.

So, let's take a look even closer, again, from their own source: this article is from February, also from UCA's data. See what's the estimated poverty rate right on January:

Now it turns out that if we increase the resolution even further, the poverty rate right on January was estimated on 57,4%. How convenient to average that along the entire quarter and giving you that as "data point", isn't?

Javier Milei's mandate started on December.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 13h

It won’t make a difference

Oliver hates Javier because he isn’t a socialist

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss 12h

I trust @didiplaywell as little as I trust govts and media.

The rest from you are bullshits, which you know very well but still repeat as a broken record.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @oliverweiss 13h

Sorry, I am not able to follow your line of argumentation. What was the poverty in Dec 2023/Jan 2024? I assume your chart shows a prediction for Dec 2023 and Jan 2024, or? What is the poverty now or last month or whatever? No predictions, hard numbers.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @didiplaywell 12h

They don't provide that data for some reason, the only hard data is the one for "the first quarter". We can already see the manipulation from there: besides the fact Milei's measures on cutting spending weren't immediate nor took immediate effect, the article speaks about "soaring" poverty, while the exact same source states it has reduced from the peak reached at the beginning of the mandate.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @oliverweiss 12h

INDEC and UCA are two different sources, or? On a positive side, I could imagine even a better clickbait article just by ignoring all UCA’s statements, Reuters didn’t.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 12h

INDEC and UCA are indeed two different sources, but the only part of Reuters' article that uses INDEC as source is the graph (which they did themselves, for INDEC do not publishes in english). So I concentrate on UCA because besides the graph all information cited comes from it, and it's more telling to have that contrast of the source with itself, and UCA is not a state dependency, which INDEC is and thus I assume you will trust less.

2 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 10h

The Guardian prints lies for business. Fact.

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @south_korea_ln OP 22h

I'm not on the ground, and this reporting might be biased...

Cutting government spending, austerity measures, all good...

But cutting last resort helps such as soup kitchen sounds a bit extreme...

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 21h

The Guardian might be biased

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 20h

Wish it would be just "biased" but in this case I'm horrified at the level of manipulation and lies.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @south_korea_ln OP 20h

Bell_curve might be biased ;)

We're all biased.

Just read from a wide array of viewpoints.

52 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 20h

The Guardian lies and hates capitalism.

The Guardian ignores the disasters before Milei

They are trying to paint a fictional picture of Argentina before Milei, it wasn't that bad! Hyper inflation is not so bad!

Wide array of viewpoints is a good thing but it depends on your selection. The Guardian is garbage when it pretends to cover economics and inflation.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 11h

Ofcourse any turn around will have pain and have those who now need to meet reality, those who were at the end of the handouts like government programs and government jobs will be salty and will provide endless anecdotes of why this change is bad, but look at inflation, look at the improving of the currency, the uptick in business and productive jobs

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder 11h

the UK is going to end up like Argentina if it doesn't stop fucking around with the printing press and the endless stuffing of useless government workers

the NHS is basically broken at this point, then you see the data and it's not hard to see why.

when things like this happening , it's no wonder why things go bad.

the rise of the fiat-funded overstuffed bureaucracy and an ever-dependent society on handouts and subsidies

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss 14h

His administration has frozen pensions, reduced aid to soup kitchens, cut welfare programmes and stopped all public works projects. Tens of thousands of public employees have been fired, reduced energy and transportation subsidies have pushed costs up, and purchasing power has eroded.

Is anything of this true?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mbrochh1 20h

The Guardian is no a source for truthful and reliable news.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 21h

This headline is misleading because inflation makes everyone poor. GDP per capita has plummetted in Argentina pre Milei

Poverty soars to over 50%? That implies that poverty rate was under 50 percent pre Milei, does anyone believe this? anyone with a brain and common sense

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Satosora 21h

We wont know until we wait a while and see how it ripples through the system. Might be good, might be bad.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 20h

It has been really good. We are doing Ok (from where we where of course). This is all the left.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Msd0457890 21h

The economic situation in Argentina actually has many prospects. The arrival of Javier Milei to the presidency, which has implemented some radical changes in the country's economy, has created an exponential increase in poverty due, according to him, to the erroneous measures of his predecessors.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @nerd2ninja 23h

Weirdly, the better move may have been to continue paying the IMF and THEN do all of this.

This is what needs to be done though no doubt about that. All of the business networks and career goals of everyone all need to shift to match the new economy. That can be rough for a few years.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @mf 7h

IMF is just another shitcoin printer: https://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/Sheets/2023/special-drawing-rights-sdr

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @nerd2ninja 7h

Don't you get invaded or something if you don't pay back the IMF tho?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mf 6h

Depends on who that "you" is, and what contract was done. Regardless, I'm almost certain that not even the burucraps know they've been given yet another shitcoin.