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301 sats \ 13 replies \ @TheWildHustle 4 Oct \ on: The ethics of borrowing in fiat, in order to buy bitcoin bitcoin
Its unethical
Using the benefits of an immoral system to enrich yourself while hiding under the guise of "I'm speeding the decline of fiat" is an easy cop out.
Ethically speaking I think the best move is to completely separate yourself from the system. In fiat you are either the abuser or the abused.
That being said, Hustle will conduct an unethical act and take out a loan to buy bitcoin, because he has access to cheap loans and he doesn't have the will to forgo the allure of grabbing easily obtained fiat and converting it into perfect perfect bitcoin. The allure is too strong for him, but he acknowledges that its a slimy game which shouldn't be considered altruistic or helpful to the cause by any stretch of the imagination.
The beast is in its death throws, accelerationism is often an excuse to sarcastically dunk on the retarded.
I think the best move is to completely separate yourself from the system. In fiat you are either the abuser or the abused.
I agree with that, although I don't think borrowing fiat to buy more bitcoin is unethical.
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I have often thought what Saylor is doing is unethical....and now I am hardening that thinking....
I think Jeff Booth said something along the lines of it being impossible to measure a system from within the system? or something like that...anyway what always pops into my mind when I hear even him talk about EgoDeath and really all the VC investors...etc... is that so often they talk about the 40-60% returns Bitcoin has had year-over-year since inception....and then how they decide what a "good" investment is by whether or not the return they will get will outperform that 40-60% metric....and I want to puke....
Maybe its just me - but that thought is nothing more than measuring Bitcoin from within the current system - and quite frankly it is shit! If you only invest in new companies or ideas based on beating Bitcoins returns viewed in FIAT terms - you are missing the forest for the trees....
In my stupid mind - The only way to achieve being on a Bitcoin standard is to be on a Bitcoin Standard. (period-full stop as they say)
Now - of course - we are still living in a world that operates almost entirely on a FIAT standard (with a parallel Bitcoin Standard taking hold) so we all have to "hedge" to some degree - It seems to me to be more like this....
Those with the most "data/value" in the larger system - have the least to gain by moving to the new system and vice/versa those with the least "data/value" in the larger system have the least to lose and therefor fewer barriers to move into the newer system (when they deem it fair and conducive to them).
The larger "data/value" holders need to recognize this paradigm and be willing to expend their holdings/savings in the old system in order to grow the new one...however so many are still confused about what the actual return is that they are looking for....they are still thinking in the FIAT mindset of HODL your savings to carry into the future vs. the Bitcoin mindset of abundance in value through scarcity and growing the users/network/new system making it more secure as fast as possible to ensure it doesn't become simply another "pawn" in the 5-d game of chess being played by the ruling class....(nothing against them-as most likely don't even know the game they are playing and have even less of a clue that they accelerate the hate/greed/contempt that proliferates under the FIAT system)
Sorry not Sorry
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I see what your saying, I do think many bitcoiners need to be realistic about the time frame it will take for the world to operate on a bitcoin standard. I don't know if we will see it in this century, and I think many fiat people in Bitcoin understand why not make extra money for now - knowing that they won't live to see the hyperbitcoinized world.
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Hyperbitcoinization is a personal relationship to the rest of the world.
You can be hyperbitcoinized right now, although it would be a bit difficult.
Every year becoming hyperbitcoinized gets easier
Until there is a tipping point to where it becomes more natural to live on a bitcoin standard, than to not.
You don't need 50 percent of the world to adopt bitcoin before you start living on a bitcoin standard. Hyperbitcoinization will hit TheWildHustle hard in 2025. He gets his direct deposit in bitcoin and has been doing so for more than a year. He'll graduate to getting his direct deposit and all sat streams sent to his node, will leverage NWC for budgeting, Clams for whatever fiat accounting nonsense is required of him, something like a bitcoin well BillPay service or something similar, will only spend money at places that accept bitcoin, like beef initiative, Oshi, and Shopstr. Will keep an eye on local merchant adoption.
The future is here, just not evenly distributed. Prices will fall and personal finance will get drastically easier for me, as my neighbors will see price inflation and the betrayal of his most trusted third party intermediaries.
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Right! For example I am here in Arizona, there isn't a single grocery store, bar or restaurant that accepts bitcoin (check out bitcoin maps).
I still try to buy with sats at a farmers market - but it is more unnatural and I am forcing the situation almost. I think there are areas in the world where it is 10/10 easy, and there are areas where you are forcing a square through round hole.
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like everything in the world..."what comes around goes around"... or you know - two sides of the same coin :)
If it was easy everyone would be doing it - we will get there all in good time!
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I absolutely hear you on the time frame.... It is so very difficult to predict the future of anything :)
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agree - aim high, shoot low :)
though I find it hard to shake the nagging feeling I get when I look at what is happening to the entire world...
like if it was just the economy....maybe it would be a while yet
or if it was just one war in some far off country....maybe it would be a while yet
or just one country suffering through hyperinflation of their currency....maybe it would be a while yet....
shoot - even if it was just one asshole speeding down the street in a rush to get to their next (fill in the blank - with whatever FIAT value scam you want)...maybe it would be a while yet....
the world just feels like something is more compressed, like the vibrational frequencies are screaming in a high pitched cacophony waiting for some relief valve to open full throttle and calm everything down a bit...likely some future someone will be like man I wish we had that screaming, fast paced energy back...when things are slow and we are just trudging along....but it will be for the better I think...
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If you grok Bitcoin and have the means to leave fiat behind entirely. I think playing in fiat to accumulate more corn is a bit unethical.
<So are you saying what Saylor is doing is unethical?
Yes.
How much Bitcoin does a person need, before leaving the system of theft it was designed to replace? Thousands of Bitcoin? Why seek loans and yield if you live in a deflationary world with hard money? Is it money for moneys sake?
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Listen, if the system’s printing cash like there’s no tomorrow, why wouldn’t you leverage it to secure something that actually holds value? The real unethical move here is sitting back and letting the Cantillon insiders keep playing musical chairs while the rest of us get left without a seat.
You’re worried about borrowing in fiat to buy Bitcoin? Why? Because it might hurt the fragile feelings of the system that’s been screwing the little guy for decades? Miss me with that. Every time someone uses that printed fiat to buy Bitcoin, they're doing more to undermine the monopoly of the dollar than any hashtag or passive protest ever will.
The real kicker is you act like the banks won’t loan that money to someone else if you don’t take it. They want you to borrow. That’s how they keep the whole game going. So yeah, if they’re going to print and loan, I’m damn sure going to take what’s mine and put it somewhere they can’t touch.
This isn’t about screwing over the next person. It’s about playing the game before it plays you.
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Its more than possible to earn money from unethical actions. I don't want a seat with the Cantillonairs, I want to be left alone.
With bitcoin you don't really need to play their fiat game. Leave your abuser.
Its not a race to stack more bitcoin than your enemy. Bitcoin is money for enemies.
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