I generally avoid raising it as the vast majority of people here in New Zealand at least seem hostile/scared/completely misinformed. The FUD campaign has been pretty effective in the minds of the majority, here at least, as far as I can see and gauge. It is a topic many people find confronting, unfortunately.

Brown pilled brilliant! I love it and will use this term at the first opportunity! Your extended family sound rather onto it- although moving to full self custody is hopefully their next move. ETFs and MSTR are rat poison, imo. Of my extended family only sister ever bought Bitcoin - I gave up trying to convince them otherwise long ago. Sister works in finance as a lawyer for one of NZs larger non bank lenders and wanted to learn more and understand it as it is/was obviously a new and interesting concept, but I think she is still mostly loyal to the fiat debt slavery system that pays her salary!

It all depends upon continued demand for USTs and anyone who understands the US economy is now trading at a loss for decades and cannot continue as it has done without becoming insolvent will see the problem here. Tether might prop up the USD but the USD is nevertheless facing an existential challenge as China is now the dominant global productive economy and China has built mBridge to be an alternative to the USD SWIFT protocol which has been the basis of US global financial system 'petrodollar' hegemony. Tether goes down with the USD. No wonder some are seeking to buy into Bitcoin before the USD sinks into insolvency.

I do not see how most production can ever be restored to US manufacture. It will simply not be competitive. China has built an entire economy based on its natural advantages and state led strategy to win the trade war and they have won. USA cannot compete on most supply chains. All Trumps tariffs might at best achieve is a short term reduction in the (trade and fiscal) deficits by reducing US consumption and subsidizing inefficient US based alternatives. This is not going to make America Great Again. This is the policy of a president dealing with an empire in decline...and a population who still cannot accept that reality.

I feel sorry for US consumers and businesses. Think what you like about China fact is they manufacture stuff at very competitive prices and I use their stuff to do a lot of projects that would otherwise be a lot less viable. IMO it is insane to think any economy can afford to tariff Chinas productive outputs without suffering significantly. China has won the trade war- they plays the decadent wests capitalism at its own game and won! Yes the west set the rules and China (mostly) played by those rules and won. Trump is a sore LOSER and US consumers and businesses will pay for his tantrum tariffs.

thanks and fair enough I mention SN on reddit whenever the opportunity comes up as a refugee from reddit SN is a hugely better experience, but having invested a lot of time building the r/BitcoinNewZealand sub I still lurk on reddit occasionally to keep the sub going- have listed SNs on the sidebar of the sub too. Shadowbanning and censorship generally had become chronic on Reddit and then I found SNs. I hope more SN users keep posting links to SN on reddit as it has to be a good source of new contributors.

Good point!

Note- 'the expectation and fundamental premise these people are working upon is that Bitcoin price relative to fiat will continue to rise.'

As long as BTC price is still rising (or even if it isn't) - guess the plan is to issue more bonds, and eternally roll over the debt bomb?

Same way the US government uses USTs!

'all that is with the expectation to sell it a future date'

No the expectation and fundamental premise these people are working upon is that Bitcoin price relative to fiat will continue to rise.

There is no need to sell the Bitcoin as long as that occurs as you have an appreciating asset and investors in Strategy shares can cash out the leveraged gains if they wish but Strategy itself never needs to sell the Bitcoin.

It is seeing and treating Bitcoin as a speculative commodity and enabling profit taking without Strategy ever selling any of the commodity itself. Shareholders can cash out as long as others are willing to buy in.

Been renovating houses since the 1980s. Building new is easier in many ways.

Freedom from financial pressure. Able to work on projects that would otherwise not be possible. Have built three houses for family members. Living offgrid on land with amazing view of the Alps in a cabin I built from timber I milled on site and planting a food forest. And a lot more. Bitcoin has empowered many people to do many things that would otherwise never have been viable.

Got in early - now retired. Living the Dream. Good luck to the late comers.

CBDC Yuan + mBridge are much more likely to be the replacement protocol for the USD and trade payments than Bitcoin.

Bitcoin has a role to play but its not as the dominant global currency of trade.

I would love to be proven wrong but the sad fact is most people are sheep.

I do not stand to gain anything on Chinas rise - much more to lose in fact. However denying the reality of all the evidence I have already given when you requested it would be pure stupidity. It scares me what is happening and scares me more how many westerners like you are in such dogged and irrational denial of the facts. I am facing facts- you are in denial.

Anyway I have given more than enough time to this dialogue and wish you well but do not wish to waste any more time with someone incapable of fact based reasoned debate. Good luck and good bye.

You fail to make any credible reasoned argument. I am not arguing from a patriotic point of view but from a neutral sense of simply recognising what is happening. Denying reality as you appear to be doing is not in any sense patriotic. It is just kind of sad really.

I am in New Zealand and say what I like.

China has won the trade war-

Evidence-

USA cannot build much at all anymore -its corporates off-shored manufacturing over the last 3-4 decades. Even Musks Teslas are largely Made in China! Just some are 'assembled' in USA.

BYD builds EV batteries at half the cost Tesla can. BYD sells more EVs and Tesla cannot compete- that's why Musk is supporting Trump to protect Tesla from Chinese imports via tariffs. Crony Capitalism 101.

Plus USAs $37 Trillion debt and the fact that it cannot sell USTs as more and more buyers move away from USTs.

USA faces imminent insolvency.

Plus the fact that Trump has already backpeddled substantially upon his trade sanctions buffonery re China- USA is fucked without Chinese supply chains...just wait and see who wins the tariffs standoff. Just study how China already enables trade payments for Iran, Russia and others and how mBridge looks like it will finish of whats left of the petrodollar that USA is insolvent without.

Plus the fact that Trump cannot end the Ukraine war as he promised he would 'within 24 hours' Trump is shown to be a blustering buffon loser.

Russia has sided with China and USA is losing the petrodollar it is addicted to.

China is standing up to his threats and I wager any sum you like that USA will lose the tariffs standoff.

Again you fail to put forward a convincing rebuttal or refutation- now you just parrot what I have said while also failing completely to credibly refute what I have said.

Your 'Lets talk about Tainanmen Square' in simplified Chinese does not actually make any logical argument refuting what I have said about Chinas domination of global trade and supply chains...and the fact that all nations must now trade with China or suffer considerable economic disadvantage.

I could equally refer to the USAs many moral failings, slavery, torture via 'extraordinary renditions' 'lets talk about Guantomino' - interventions, sabotage, drone attacks and war upon the governments of other nations etc, but it would be equally irrelevant and fail to address the issues raised.

You continue to make assertions without any credible fact based or reasoned support for those assertions. It is rather tragic. You leap from asserting that Bitcoin Standard is inevitable, to asserting China is about to collapse. Such absurd baseless assertions only identify you as someone who cannot deal with reality. I do not like the prospect of China becoming increasingly dominant but I do acknowledge the facts and evidence that show this is happening. USA cannot last very long without the Chinese supply chains it is addicted to. Trump cannot end the war in Ukraine- Russia now sells its oil and gas to China and does not need the USA. Saudi Aramco has signed up to Chinas mBridge trade payments protocol and is already selling oil denominated in Yuan. The petrodollar is dying, dying, dead. Some Americans are naturally in denial as its not a great prospect to see that the global wealth and resource hegemony you enjoyed and squandered since WW2, looks like its over. Bitcoin may serve to preserve some of your wealth but it is very unlikely to emerge as the dominant means of exchange globally when China is diametrically opposed to Bitcoin as a MoE and China has already won the trade war. All nations now need to trade with China or suffer significant economic disadvantage- this reality is what you cannot yet accept- no hurry, take your time.

'No debate is neccesary' Sounds like a very authoritarian and irrational assertion.

That is not a convincing reasoned support for your initial assertion. It is more of a statement of faith or conviction.

It does not explain or even provide causative factors or logic as to why centralised fiat would decline or why Bitcoin would overcome fiats current domination of MoE monetary systems.

It is more like you are hoping something will happen but cannot argue convincingly why it could or would happen.

That is a claim you can make, and a hope you may have invested in, but your assertion is not backed by any supporting reasoned argument. Can you provide such a reasoned argument in support of your assertion?