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100 sats \ 7 replies \ @Car 8 Jun \ parent \ on: Stacker Saloon
This is where I am realizing we are missing each other?
No where in the post does it read like this, "someone like me that has been contributing code to this space since over a decade" ?
Had the OP started with that^, then posed the question it would have gotten a different reaction from me, an empathetic reaction from me. I feel your pain, to experience that, defeat sucks but yes we will win.
The OP in #997414 asked the question
When I read the rest of the post it reads like someone who hasn't been paying attention to what the big players with the money have been doing in the ecosystem, the past 3 years. That is why I reacted the way I reacted. The reason for this is simple.
This includes ETFs, Stablecoins, Tether, L2's, Ordinals, NGO's, Nostr, ECash, Security's. All the transactions have been moved elsewhere. Why? Incentives have changed, developers have left to build elsewhere.
All this was done in lockstep with Chokepoint 2.0 and now we are asking why no one is using the Bitcoin blockchain???
Myself Darthcoin, Justin Shocknet, and others had been calling this stuff out this whole time on SN and no one listened to us. Thats why I reacted the way I did. It's frustrating.
I realized last year all I can do is just focus on what I can build, help the people who are building great bitcoin projects and ignore the rest because they don't need my help to succeed they are playing a different game.
We should take it upon ourselves to post an opensource project in the saloon everyday that needs help instead just pinging me.
No where in the post does it read like this
Yeah I don't like throwing that card around tbh. It's authoritative and a +1 to reasons-to-burn. Many people are on SN on burner nyms though, so we don't always know who we talk to. But that's ok.
It's frustrating.
I think that that's another point of misunderstanding tho: I read that post as OP being on the same side of that discussion as we're agreeing to be on right now; actually most of the stackers are, if I look carefully at the responses. SN is lower on NgU fuckbois than any other Bitcoin discussion platform I've hung out on, which is a massive +.
I realized last year all I can do is just focus on what I can build, help the people who are building great bitcoin projects and ignore the rest because they don't need my help to succeed they are playing a different game.
Well yeah - they can issue their shitstonks all on their own. The plebs and no-coiners are who need support: because if the bitcoin bubble pops the former are effed, and if the fiat bubble pops the latter are effed. I'm currently thinking these would happen in reverse order: fiat first, or at the very least housing first. There's a lot of potential trouble ahead.
As for the empty blocks; I think it's solvable, but idk how it will play out. It doesn't really matter if a block is half full or full because half is ordinals; both are not sustainable long term. But who is going to invest in developing L1 apps if fees can go insane again with Casey 2.0 doing astrology with block numbers? This is a problem that I don't have an answer to. Maybe we do need to work a bit on b2b solutions per Justin - I worked with a team on that in '14/'15 but it was way too early. Maybe there's something there to revive and build upon - I'll check that out.
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But who is going to invest in developing L1 apps if fees can go insane again with Casey 2.0 doing astrology with block numbers?
I mean anyone can do astrology with block numbers, or sat numbers, or 'rare sat' tracking... or the 666th second on the 666th day the 6th year etc sat 666 etc...
The only reason any of this stuff gets traction is morons want to gamble on it. That's it. And are willing to pay far, far higher fees to gamble on nothingness than actually use Bitcoin... which apparently while being the case is really hard to understand.
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Go to NOSTR. Post after post talking about how 'liberating' Bitcoin is relative to Fiat (and just to be clear I'm not saying it's not liberating).
Liberating means people use it. Liberating means opening Lightning channels which... there isn't enough throughput for 8 billion people to do.
So logically blocks would be... full right? Very full opening Lightning Channels. But they're not right? It's totally illogical...
As far as Casey and 'ordinals'... I think it's helpful to differentiate the tool from what people do with it. There are an infinite # of ways to gamble on Bitcoin or numbers in Bitcoin or arbitrary data in Bitcoin... any probabilistic number can be gambled on or used to make a ****coin and 'hype' it and 'pump' it with mini-bubbles that go up and collapse. It would be like gambling on whether the 'next car' coming out of a tunnel is red or blue. It's not about the Car after all...
Like the probability of any number appearing somewhere has 'odds' and someone can bet on those odds with the 'hope' of getting paid out with a new 'name' or 'token' that 'pumps' it's not surprising really.
It's the people choosing to gamble... instead of saving and spending to foundationalize the new Bitcoin Economy that I don't understand. Bitcoin astrology can be 'invented'... but it's the deliberate choice to speculate on it that's the Human element.
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Liberating means people use it
Only if people want to be liberated. Otherwise it'd be
contradictio ad infinitum.So I think the only interim conclusion for the moment is: the masses (in the West) want to get rich, but they don't want to be free.
Eventually, when there is more pressure on liberty, they'll come around. I have to believe that.
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I agree on all these points.
Locally I am working on trying to find & onboard more normal tech companies into leveraging Bitcoin as another payment solution, starting this month with our new meetup we’re starting.
I think your absolutely right about B2B, this is where we have the advantage while all these other things we discussed chase trends. Also heard a pod with Ben Arc and he said similar things about us who are staying working on Bitcoin and Lightning only.
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This includes ETFs, Stablecoins, Tether, L2's, Ordinals, NGO's, Nostr, ECash, Security's. All the transactions have been moved elsewhere. Why? Incentives have changed, developers have left to build elsewhere.
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ETFs are fine... they are someone else holding the Bitcoin so you can get price exposure. That's OK but it is not transactional. And it is not self-custody... the government or powers-that-be can confiscate the ETFs any time they want.
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Stablecoins... I don't understand their purpose? Maybe in the 'global south' where people want easier access to dollars. But generally? They lose value every single year and they are 'pegged' to a Dollar. Who wants this??
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L2s... the only really viable L2 right now is Lightning. Anything else with a 'token' is a scam... and Ark etc are experimental at best.
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Ordinals the hyped-up monkey jpeg scam is completely dead at this point. So are 'memecoins' on Bitcoin which are just imaginary 'identifiers' for 'memes' to be traded. (I have a hard time believing they are actually traded).
A 546-sat UTXO is obviously not worth more because... it's named "dog-go-to-the-moon".
The 'ordinals' jpeg or memecoin scam is 99% dead because... why wouldn't it be?
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NGOs? Not sure what this is in reference to... and if it's NGOs (non-governmental organizations) OK they need Bitcoin too. So who else is using it?
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NOSTR is fine it's a 'somewhat-decentralized' social media. For all its hopium it's not an excuse to abandon self-custody (not mentioned enough on NOSTR) or Bitcoin transactions though.
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ECash. Is ECash really necessary right now? How many more Lightning channels should be and need to be opened and why aren't they?
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Securities. Like the ETF OK great... more NGU in the short term. But what about Bitcoin the monetary network or Bitcoin the alternative to Fiat? That requires transactions... and transactions require self-custody. So where is everyone? And if 'no-one is using' Bitcoin transactionally... if it is not ultimately exchanged for goods and services...
What is the point?
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