Feedback on the new user experience \ stacker news ~meta

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3369 sats \ 34 comments \ @SimpleStacker 12 Jun meta

Based on this post (#1004638) I decided to go back and see what the new user experience is like these days, particularly for someone that has minimal bitcoin/lightning knowledge, and here is my feedback.

I didn't quite create a new account, but I used an old account that has zero posts or comments.
I logged in via email. Easy enough, but I had to use a verification code sent to the email. It's different from the common email/password login, but I've seen more and more of these email-to-verification code authentication schemes, so it's more to be expected these days.
Tried to make a post. Didn't have any sats or CC's in my account, so payment failed. I got a lightning pop-up, which I roleplayed as not understanding, so I got confused and hit skip.
Went to the stacker saloon. Made a free comment. The popup happened again, which I skipped. No response after an hour. Is it because freebies are hidden by default?
Went to another post, made a comment. Popup appeared, skipped. No response after 40 minutes. Is it because freebies don't cause notifications?

Initial thoughts after an hour

It should be easier to get some engagement as a new user. Maybe a pinned post for new users to freely post in? It should be highlighted at the top and be easy to find, something like "New users post here"? I wonder if the Saloon could be adopted for this purpose.
I liked the popup when I first saw it as an old user, but for someone who is new and doesn't know anything about lightning, I think it's too confusing and potentially aggressive. Maybe instead of the popup, it could be a less intrusive notification?
I couldn't find a way to make a post for free. Wasn't sure if that's something SN does. But could new users be given some amount of free posts, or seeded with some cowboy credits? Of course, that opens SN up to sybil attacks, but maybe some proof-of-work system like Anubis could help prevent that?

Just kicking the tires here... SN is my favorite social media site and I want it to succeed!

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 12 Jun

I think nostr people tend to adapt fairly well to SN but it is foreign to other folks and if they don't get it right away they just leave. In some ways that's a good because if people are lazy or just grifting for sats we don't want them around anyways but I am sure that is not the case in every instance and SN does need to grow.

I like that you brought this up because we can all beat our heads against the wall all day thinking of ways to market and grow SN but if none of the new people want to convert to regular users it is just a waste of time an energy.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 13 Jun

Unfortunately I think you’re right, the reality is most social media sites become popular relatively fast almost immediately because they use spam, bots, algos, follower counts, and other sorts of erk to attract users. The goal should be to optimize for high quality content.

But I do believe a surge will come and the only thing to do now is just build for that but I think it will be in days if not a matter of weeks when those creators come.

Even if sn were to grow at a steady groove up that still is a win as well, sn is a very valuable site to the ecosystem and will continue to create a treasure trove of great content for years to come.

I often think with all the upcoming releases with sn territories that will significantly help with its growth.

High quality silo and curation is where the web is moving to, which is a shift back to what we saw in the late 2000’s- 2010’s, which medium and others were able to do successfully post initial social media craze. Never been a better time to be a creator in history.

116 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 12 Jun

freebies are hidden by default?

yes

freebies don't cause notifications?

yes

Maybe instead of the popup, it could be a less intrusive notification?

There's a button to never show it again next to the skip button.

We added the popup because people would create a post and then be surprised that they received CCs instead of sats because they didn't know they need to attach a lightning wallet to receive sats. That's a pretty bad initial experience imo.

I couldn't find a way to make a post for free. Wasn't sure if that's something SN does. But could new users be given some amount of free posts, or seeded with some cowboy credits?

We had free posts in the past, but they were abused iirc. Too much spam.

proof-of-work system

mhhh, I don't like PoW to protect against DoS (as @calle mentioned today here) but maybe the context here is different enough that it wouldn't be as bad

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 12 Jun

We added the popup because people would create a post and then be surprised that they received CCs instead of sats because they didn't know they need to attach a lightning wallet to receive sats. That's a pretty bad initial experience imo.

Pretty tricky issue to optimize for because there are likely different kinds of users with different priorities.

One type would prioritize ease of use and engagement and isn't as concerned about "real sats". Another type has strong feelings about real sats and is more concerned about that than ease-of-use.

Ideally, we could just get non-custodial lightning to become easy to use, which is what I'm sure you guys are thinking about how to do all the time.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 12 Jun

For whoever doesn't know which prompt we're talking about, this is the one:

Just noticed that the checkbox is not "next to the skip button", but on the other side. Maybe that makes it easy to miss?

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @sox 12 Jun

proof-of-work system

A coincidence that I came across this post, as for the past 5 hours I've been designing a PoW system as fun activity, for a cooler stateless auth sync.

Only to come to the conclusion that a) it's kinda absurd for this b) iOS JS just shits itself

117 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 12 Jun

PoW is also hard to tune for multiple device types. A cheaper phone is going to struggle to do what a modern desktop CPU can do instantly … so what people end up proposing is reusable pow, where you pay a server to make pow for you, but then we’re kind of back to using bitcoin (which is ultimately reusable pow).

30 sats \ 22 replies \ @Undisciplined 12 Jun

I though bios were free and that was sort of the way for a new user to get started. I know that I started with 0 zats on SN, and knowing basically nothing about lightning, but that was a while ago now.

Maybe it was that you got one free post or comment. Do you remember way back then?

42 sats \ 9 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 12 Jun

Oh boy I can't remember at all how I got started. I never had a bio so it wasn't through that, and I don't even remember what the posting economics were back then.

I think I joined around the time !lntipbot was getting popular on Reddit and someone said this place does that by default. I wonder if I can somehow pull up my first zapped post or comment

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @Undisciplined 12 Jun

I know everything cost one sat when I joined.

42 sats \ 7 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 12 Jun

I remember SN was custodial back then. I think SN might actually have been my first lightning wallet, come to think of it. I don't remember how I got seeded with sats in the first place. Pretty sure it wasn't by deposit, though I can't remember anymore.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Undisciplined 12 Jun

I had a fountain wallet already, but I'm sure I didn't make a deposit. I think it was that you got one free comment or post and I made more than one sat on mine.

92 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b 12 Jun

When we launched, everyone got 2 free posts and 5 free comments. Then we switched to “free posts and comments if you run out sats,” then territories started getting spammed and we made it free for comments only if you run out of sats.

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21 sats \ 11 replies \ @ek 12 Jun

bios are still free, that's the exception to no more freebie posts

24 sats \ 9 replies \ @Undisciplined 12 Jun

Were there worse freebie offenders than yourself?

21 sats \ 8 replies \ @ek 12 Jun

I didn’t assmilk by pretending I’m a girl or so excited to learn more about bitcoin

But I appreciate you remember my freebie phase haha

15 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined 12 Jun

I forgot about that wave of fake girls.

21 sats \ 6 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 12 Jun

maybe that's what we need, more fake girls (or real girls too)

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30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 12 Jun

I remember I haven't seen a Bio post for a while now!

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 12 Jun

Hooking up newbies with some free posts and comments would be solid. Plus, what about a video walk-through explaining how this whole forum runs?

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby 12 Jun

Great job on this! It made me realize the only time I ever see freebie is in recent when someone posts a bio.

It may be a little intimidating for a new user who doesn't know anything about lightning.

One of the things I absolutely loathe about reddit is the way it makes new users feel. It's all harsh warnings and admonishments.

I really like the idea of seeding new accounts with some CCs.

Thanks for the thoughtful notes.

102 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 12 Jun

Yeah, I really despite Reddit's new user experience. On SN, maybe you feel ignored. On Reddit, I felt attacked, lol. As a new user to r/coffee my first post was a simple question asking why kettle prices have gone up so much, and it got modded with no explanation as to why (i even did a search to make sure it wasn't a duplicate). Similar things have happened on other subreddits.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 12 Jun

This happened to me too! It's horrible: either they give you these intense warnings like "Do not participate until you are a seasoned user or we will ban you!" or they just let you post and send you a note later saying you have been banned. It's pretty rough.