How can a browser wallet be self-custodial? I create a wallet and sent 21 sats to it, but now I can't send anything from the new wallet. The 'send' menu gets stuck trying to open the camera (which is off), and when I hit 'paste' it gives an error, even though I’ve got an invoice copied.
Mutiny was a browser wallet and they were self-custody.
Blitz uses Spark, which is a statechain. Here's their tldr. It is a different trust model than Lightning. But honestly, I would do a bad job trying to explain it. It'd be very cool to see a great spark explainer on SN.
Oh! I’m totally in the dark with this technique. Gonna read up a bit...
I remember reading somewhere around here that Spark wasn’t exactly loved by the btc maxis.
It'd be very cool to see a great spark explainer on SN.
Spark operates under a “moment-in-time” trust model, meaning that trust is only required at the time of a transaction. As long as at least one (or a configurable threshold) of the Spark operators behaves honestly during a transfer, the system ensures perfect forward security. Even if operators are later compromised or act maliciously, they cannot retroactively compromise past transactions or take money from users.
This security is achieved through a fundamental action required of SOs: forgetting the operator key after a transfer. If an operator follows this protocol, the transferred funds are secure, even against future coercion or hacking. Spark strengthens this model by using multiple operators, ensuring that as long as one (or the required threshold) deletes their key, users remain secure and have perfect forward security. This approach contrasts with most other Layer 2 solutions, where operators retain the ability to compromise user funds until they exit the system. The only exception is Lightning, which requires no trusted entities at all.
This should also be the definition of Layer 2 imo. if you need to trust somebody, it's not a Layer 2. So by definition, Lightning is the only Layer 2.
But other "Layer 2 solutions" probably don't like that definition, so they try to make it mean something else. But I don't know what their definition is. Anything is Layer 2 as long as it's not Layer 1?
Would you say that there is a little bit more trust involved with lightning is than there is for onchain?
You have to trust your channel partner a little bit. (if they force close on you and you aren't paying attention, or you can't get to the chain for some reason...)
If you follow the protocol correctly, I wouldn't say you need to trust your channel partner. This condition means to me it's just not as simple as onchain to not involve trust. But trust is not necessary.
I've played around with some of the features too. Have you used the Fund feature yet?
Seems like it would be a nice tool for betting with friends and that sort of thing.
I wish it was standard for all wallets to have a tab that explained what types of fees you might encounter and who they’re going to. Seems this web wallet uses Spark and Breez Liquid SDK. Not sure what fees are typical with Spark. I assume the Breez liquid SDK means Boltz swap fees at least. Are there any fees for Blitz itself? Would love to see that overview somewhere. If I make a request for 100,000 sats, the receive screen says fee: 0 sats. That seems surprising.
Update: Just saw this at the bottom of their webpage. This is great. Just need to link to it somewhere from the app, but respect. Thats really well down.
How can a browser wallet be self-custodial? I create a wallet and sent 21 sats to it, but now I can't send anything from the new wallet. The 'send' menu gets stuck trying to open the camera (which is off), and when I hit 'paste' it gives an error, even though I’ve got an invoice copied.
Mutiny was a browser wallet and they were self-custody.
Blitz uses Spark, which is a statechain. Here's their tldr. It is a different trust model than Lightning. But honestly, I would do a bad job trying to explain it. It'd be very cool to see a great spark explainer on SN.
Oh! I’m totally in the dark with this technique. Gonna read up a bit... I remember reading somewhere around here that Spark wasn’t exactly loved by the btc maxis.
@BlakeKaufman17 ?
Probably because of this:
💯
This should also be the definition of Layer 2 imo. if you need to trust somebody, it's not a Layer 2. So by definition, Lightning is the only Layer 2.
But other "Layer 2 solutions" probably don't like that definition, so they try to make it mean something else. But I don't know what their definition is. Anything is Layer 2 as long as it's not Layer 1?
Would you say that there is a little bit more trust involved with lightning is than there is for onchain?
You have to trust your channel partner a little bit. (if they force close on you and you aren't paying attention, or you can't get to the chain for some reason...)
If you follow the protocol correctly, I wouldn't say you need to trust your channel partner. This condition means to me it's just not as simple as onchain to not involve trust. But trust is not necessary.
My definition of layer 2 doesn’t mean you don’t trust anyone. But I gotta admit, I know that I know nothing!
Oh, they aren't using lightning? I read about this a few months ago. Pretty interesting, but I thought it was still in testing.
Figured it out, browser was blocking the clipboard. 6 sats fee (28.6%)?
Browser is just how you deliver the interface, the back-end can node be completely self-custodial (eg ShockWallet connected to your own Lightning.Pub)
To be trust-less though you'd have to self-host the interface.
In this case Blitz its using a fake L2, which is inherently custodial, so the OPs title is inaccurate.
https://recover.blitz-wallet.com/
coinos.io has been doing something like this for a while, and it has a ton of features, including e-cash and Liquid.
i love coinos especially because it is open source... The new fund feature is cool too
I've played around with some of the features too. Have you used the Fund feature yet? Seems like it would be a nice tool for betting with friends and that sort of thing.
I even overrode the name https://coinos.io/fund/test or https://coinos.io/fund/carter
You can not be self-custodial with a fake L2
Interesting...
I'd like to know what exactly is happening under the hood here.
looks promising, I see most features are 'coming soon'
I wish it was standard for all wallets to have a tab that explained what types of fees you might encounter and who they’re going to. Seems this web wallet uses Spark and Breez Liquid SDK. Not sure what fees are typical with Spark. I assume the Breez liquid SDK means Boltz swap fees at least. Are there any fees for Blitz itself? Would love to see that overview somewhere. If I make a request for 100,000 sats, the receive screen says fee: 0 sats. That seems surprising.
Fees are getting quite complicated: https://sdk-doc-liquid.breez.technology/guide/end-user_fees.html https://docs.spark.money/home/faq#what-are-the-fees-like%3F
Seems impossible to clearly communicate to an end-user...
Update: Just saw this at the bottom of their webpage. This is great. Just need to link to it somewhere from the app, but respect. Thats really well down.
Well done*. Not well down.
Those links plus a note on what fees (if any) Blitz takes on top would be perfect. Much better than no information at all.
I can haz api?
No Mobile? Boo