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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @optimism 11h \ parent \ on: The Increasing Impact of Bitcoin’s Ancient Supply bitcoin
I don't think I misunderstood, I'm just saying that for example an EU business transacting in USD is also taxed on cap gains if USD rises against EUR. Thus, if you're asking for a special status: Bitcoin > USD everywhere outside of the US then that's a hard sell and will be seen as favoritism. I'm not against it, I just don't think it realistic. I think KY made a law for state taxes like that recently though, but I can't help but feel that this is an outlier.
I do agree that for individuals tax on Bitcoin gains is nonsense and it could be easily fixed by making a very high cap so that the average person doesn't get taxed at all. It's anyway not worth the effort in most cases.
Personally, I'd like to see no tax at all, unless it's for damages, i.e. environmental tax.
If a European business holds USD and makes payments in USD because they believe USD will hold value more likely than Euro they clearly have intent to make gain via capital gain.
If a citizen or business holds BTC because they want to make p2p payments free of rentseeking censorship capable intermediaries they are not clearly intending CG.
To tax citizens and businesses who hold BTC for reasons of integrity and enabling free market competition in monetary payments protocols is anti-competitive state monopolistic protectionism and inequitable.
Milei has stated his intention to allow people freedom of choice in payments protocols as this creates a healthy competitive free market in money, free of state sponsored monopolistic fiat debt leveraged usury. I believe he is 100% correct on this and a free market in monetary protocols would most likely strengthen any economy where it is adopted.
Bankers and governments have misused their fiat hegemony too long and are clearly will be very reluctant to relinquish it.
We need to examine why- because it is we who pay the rent on their fiat usury and debasement.
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If a European business holds USD and makes payments in USD because they believe USD will hold value more likely than Euro they clearly have intent to make gain via capital gain.
But that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you have a long term contract with a US supplier and your contract is expressed in USD while your accounting is in EUR, you have to translate these USD to EUR. This is simply an accounting rule that I have only seen exempted in Turkey and nowhere else to my recollection, where, mind you this was also a long time ago, you could have TRY+EUR+USD on your books without FX recognition; not sure if that is still true.
Now, everywhere else, if USD goes down against EUR, you had a P&L for USD that was worth X when you booked it, but then appreciated to X+1, then for tax reasons you have to count the +1 (depending on jurisdiction) either as cap gains or as simple income (which is often taxed even harder.) In some places you can discount fx losses against short-term cap gains (i.e. in the US you can do this) but not long-term.
What would help in the US would be to have preferential rates for this, i.e. treatment of BTC as a common currency, not a "speculative asset". But I don't think that the taxing is going away unless an exception is written into law.
it is we who pay the price of their fiat usury and debasement.
If I had a replicator I'd replicate myself 5x just so I could 500% agree!
We do! So we have to find ways to either change "them", or opt-out. Personally I've chosen the latter, because I don't trust democracies - I guess I'm that arrogant. So I don't vote anymore and I get to file for 0 taxes owed every year in the country where I'm tax-resident. In return I have no state-sponsored healthcare, no social security, nothing; I've opted out of all the benefits too.
Thus far I'm doing reasonably well. I would have done better for myself if I'd just complied but I'd be unhappy for being a slave. I hate overlords.
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If you operate under one fiat monopoly for tax purposes and account denominate sales in another fiat currency then relative changes in the worth of those currencies can be construed and will be seen as a CG or CL for tax purposes.
Fiat monopolies are competing with each other and anyone under one monopoly can expect tax on any attempt to escape.
That is however a far cry from a citizen or business using Bitcoin as a MoE where from the businesses perspective the amount charged for any bitcoin sale is immediately recorded at the current BTC/fiat exchange rate and that rate is adjusted as sales occur over time.
The business is still going to pay exactly the same income tax in fiat as it would whether it denominates in fiat or sats.
I am sure many here would be curious to know how you avoid all taxation ans nearly all tax jurisdictions now charge sales taxes so to operate a business you must file returns for sales tax and to be consumer of anything you pay a sales tax.
Can you elaborate on how you have achieved your tax filing free status?
Even El Salvador has sales taxes- is there anywhere that doesn't?
If you are only paying sales tax and zero income tax perhaps you are domiciled in a tax haven which is probably not an option for most people.
From my perspective I accept some taxation is required to have a functional law and order, defense and legal system that protects property rights and would go further to being happy to pay tax to fund free education and health care, but ultimately opting out is a cop out whereas taking an active role in democracy while not easy is what is required.
There has never been a wealthy and strong economy without an equally strong and healthy government and without mass involvement and participation governments tend toward corruption.
A free market in monetary payments options would reduce the level of corruption that has become chronic is western democracies where bankers now effectively hold more lobbying power behind the scenes than voters.
We need to challenge their state sponsored fiat based debasement, usury and rentseeking.
Bitcoin being accepted as a tax free MoE protocol would signal to voters a significant reduction in the banker sponsored corruption in their politics!
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If I buy something in a place where there is sales tax then of course I have to pay it. There are plenty of places with no sales tax though. As for income tax, you already named 2 jurisdictions where it is possible. Just have to accept sats and no fiat, time your income well, practice patience and not spending more than necessary.
As for participating in actively changing society, its only needed if you believe that Bitcoin mass adoption is desirable. It isn't to me. I'd like some more adoption but I don't need every soul on this planet to transact in Bitcoin. Also we don't have any tech to support that yet. Maybe in the future.
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Which jurisdictions have no sales/value added tax?
I do not know of any jurisdictions where income tax can be legally avoided by only transacting in sats- even in El Salvador if accepting sats you must still pay sales tax as I understand it though there may be an exemption for very small businesses. Sales/value added taxes are anyway just a convoluted means of taxing income as they are calculated on the value added by the business paying- so are a form of sly income tax in almost all cases.
Where/how do you live and completely avoid paying tax?
For myself the majority of the tax I pay is probably via sales tax anyway, not income tax.
I am sure many here would be interested to know if it is legally possible to avoid paying any tax, while in almost all jurisdictions it is possible to avoid/evade paying taxes but only by evading the law.
Yes, I don't see universal adoption of Bitcoin as necessary but I would like to see the taxation of Bitcoin where it is used as a MoE payments protocol removed as it severely restricts and inhibits both use and competition in the market of monetary payments options...and such change is unlikely to happen without ongoing pressure from voters on politicians seeking votes.
Milei has appears to have provided Argentine voters with such an option and more is needed of that kind of change, imo...even if he cannot yet deliver freedom of monetary exchange MoE market, he is voicing the idea and objective that such a change is desirable...and it surely is!
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P.S. I agree that allowing a capped exemption for people (especially where they spend sats rather than sell for fiat) would be a great step in the right direction and would enable at least some increased competition in the MoE payments marketplace.
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