Yep. My beef is those word games are just the first trust violation, it's spin. 

It's exactly the same as saying Coinbase Pro is self-custodial because you self-custody your own API key. ECash is just an authentication method to a server, no different than an API key, just adds extra steps to support virtue signaling and larp.

>  making me come around to your viewpoint

All do in time. 

justin_shocknet

I've obviously seem some be pedantic and claim that you can "self-custodially hold L-BTC", which is semantically true though somewhat of a misleading distinction

 I was making with ecash. I don't mind it so much, but I think it's on the wallet to make it clear it's not a bitcoin wallet. Ecash wallets are self-custodial ecash, not bitcoin. If Flash says hey, here's a cool liquid wallet, i don't think I would have been confused. However, I also wouldn't have downloaded it and tried it out because liquid seems like a poor set of trade-offs to me.

I'll admit though that this conversation is making me come around to your viewpoint. Certainly, if a liquid (or ecash) wallet claims to seamlessly interact with bitcoin, it needs to make it really clear that the balance is not being held in bitcoin.

lightning

Flash Wallet trial run

Scoresby

> I've obviously seem some be pedantic and claim that you can "self-custodially hold L-BTC", which is semantically true though somewhat of a misleading distinction

I believe this is the same [distinction](https://stacker.news/items/397764) I was making with ecash. I don't mind it so much, but I think it's on the wallet to make it clear it's not a bitcoin wallet. Ecash wallets are self-custodial ecash, not bitcoin. If Flash says hey, here's a cool liquid wallet, i don't think I would have been confused. However, I also wouldn't have downloaded it and tried it out because liquid seems like a poor set of trade-offs to me. 

I'll admit though that this conversation is making me come around to your viewpoint. Certainly, if a liquid (or ecash) wallet claims to seamlessly interact with bitcoin, it needs to make it really clear that the balance is not being held in bitcoin. 