Bitcoin Apologetics- Roleplay \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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496 sats \ 30 comments \ @Slestak_Jack 24 Sep bitcoin

I brought up the topic of Bitcoin at work last week with two coworkers, both female, one in her 40's, the other is 22yo. The 40 something showed interest and had questions, though when I mentioned mining she thought that I meant that it's physical and something you can put in your pocket. Sigh... The 22yo said that it was too late.

I think my observation is that at this point every knows about it, and most people have developed some sort of defense mechanism to it. We're past the point of bringing it up and finding someone who is unaware and interested. Therefore, the conversations are going to be more nuanced and difficult. So what are some tactical ways of talking about Bitcoin with strangers that might leave them to reconsider?

I'm taking cues from some Christian Apologetics folks that teach about these things. The similarities in the discussions and problems faced are notably related.

First, try to ask questions rather than make speeches. The person asking the questions is controlling the conversation. For example: "What do you know about Bitcoin?"

"It's a Ponzi and is going to zero"

"You think so? You think BlackRock and Wallstreet believe that?"

Now let's role play the conversation in the comments. Try another question if you have one that you were hit with recently.

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33 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies 24 Sep

I like the idea of going through arguments like this. Certainly helps thinking about arguments and what makes them concise.

However, I think lots of these will be quite the strawmen. Your example with "You think BlackRock and Wallstreet believe that?" illustrates this perfectly. This might be a good argument if you talk to an institutionalist or neoliberal type of guy. But that's a strawman. It will help you not at all against a leftist kind of guy. It might make their suspicions even worse if anything.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

Good point. A lefty type probably associates Bitcoin with Trump because of his positive support. Like Tylenol. So understanding your audience a little definitely helps the conversation. That's a tough one. Have to win them over a little and gain trust.

102 sats \ 7 replies \ @ek 24 Sep

"It's too late"

"Can one be too late to adopt technologies like wheels, cars, semiconductors, the internet etc.?"

44 sats \ 5 replies \ @Scoresby 24 Sep

This is the most common opinion among non bitcoiners I meet. They feel that bitcoin's main purpose is gainz and that they have missed most of it.

If you talk about censorship resistance, people do not care.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep

First goal of a bitcoin apologist is to help them not to think of it as an "investment"

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

I agree. I think people need to truly understand the problem before they can see Bitcoin as a solution. Bitcoin doesn't solve anything if you don't understand the fiat. It's like morality, you don't think about it much, you just have it and it works for you. Until you encounter someone who starts asking questions like Socrates.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 24 Sep

And yet, the first way most people encounter bitcoin is with a casino mindset.

I'm not sure I agree that we should first attempt to dissuade people of this way of thinking. Greed is a powerful motivator.

Speaking for myself, I certainly wouldn't have put as much time in to learning about bitcoin if it weren't for the greedy little gremlin in me who's hoping for $10 million per coin. It's not great, but it is real.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

Expand their time horizon out to years. Talk about the benefits of a money that crosses borders and time.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 24 Sep

They feel that bitcoin's main purpose is gainz and that they have missed most of it.

it's def the most obvious one

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

True, but the price of most technology comes down with time as it improves.

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @fiatbad 24 Sep

If we were using Bitcoin for more than speculative investment, we wouldn't have to evangelize at all. We could lead by example, by refusing to use (evil) fiat money, and going out of our way to spend and use Bitcoin ONLY. We could be a principled and virtuous people.

This is the best advertisement we could possibly do. Be the change we want to see, not just talk about it.

The Christian apologetics analogy is perfect. If Christianity were true, it wouldn't require ridiculous mental-gymnastics and apologetics to convince others. Christians would live differently. The world would look different.

But Christianity is just a story. Bitcoin is just a story.

At least Bitcoin is real and does have the potential to change the world for the better. But Bitcoiners themselves aren't acting like it. They're acting like Christians, telling stories, going to church on Sunday, and then doing fuck all the rest of the time. (spending fiat and whining about how hard it is to switch to Bitcoin "for now")

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep

Just curious, why do you have such a low opinion of Christians? Even if you don't believe that what they claim is true, you seem to be quite happy to make sweeping, generalized statements about them.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @fiatbad 24 Sep

I spent most of my life around them, and I was one for the first 25 years of my life. I was even studying to go into ministry.

I think that people would act differently if they really KNEW they were headed for a better life after this one. Sure, there are a few examples of martyrs who do exemplify what it would look like to truly know for certain. Just like there are a few Bitcoiners who move to El Salvador or Costa Rica.

But the vast majority of Christians don't live it. And I don't blame them. The evidence for Christianity is piss awful. The true believers don't have evidence to believe, they're just so stupid that they don't require evidence. Like the Heaven's Gate cultists.... you gotta be real stupid to be a martyr for something so obviously fake (Christianity).

"... sooner or later you're going to realize, just as I did, that there's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path." - Morpheus

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

I have to disagree with you on the evidence, but I would just point to some of the really smart Brits that defend the faith. Christianity is far from obviously fake, and seems like you have a little motivation in saying so.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep

Oh, interesting... what changed your path away from doing ministry?

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @fiatbad 24 Sep

Good question. I guess I was kinda giving up on the idea even before I started doubting the veracity of Christianity. So it had to be something else.....

I've always been interested in so many things that I could never settle on any single profession. I think I switched my college major a dozen times. My 20's was just a mess. No direction. But.... I never stopped learning, reading new things and experiencing new things. So, I don't regret the "mess". Maybe that's exactly what a young person should do.... experience and learn as much as possible instead of focusing on a single discipline.

Eventually, it was reading a few key books that made me turn from Christianity entirely.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

Sounds a lot like my story. I can really relate to the "mess". My profession chose me. I can't seem to leave it despite my effort. But a Bachelors in Philosophy doesn't lend much help.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep

Ah, I see. Yeah I'd love to know what these key books were too

Btw just so there's no misunderstanding, I do consider myself a Christian but I'm always curious to hear others points of view too

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

This is great. Let's talk about this.

As to your point about using Bitcoin as money, I think it would most often still get spent like fiat. If I buy gift cards with sats on Strike and live on a Bitcoin standard, the person accepting my money isn't really involved. Furthermore, trying to eliminate another persons choice in the transaction and force Bitcoin doesn't really jive with the Bitcoin ethos.

Likewise, Christianity is freely chosen, it's a gift. As we have seen from Covid and Bitcoin, people will reject sound reason. And you are right, the world should look different if Christians really believe the story. But that gets back to understanding the problem.

"It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.” https://www.bible.com/bible/100/2PE.2.22.NASB1995

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep

It's too volatile

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

Then use that to your advantage. Every time it drops 3% or more buy. When you are up 10% or more take a profit of no more than 5% of your holdings.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 25 Sep

My issue with a response like that is that it doesn't move them out of their fiat mindset. I want them to understand the why of Bitcoin, beyond simple number go up.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Car 24 Sep

This cycle is for the multi-millionaire’s everyone else is priced out or at least they think they are. Just based off of what I’ve seen and heard locally in Austin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

DCA for 5 years and then see where you are at. At a minimum you are saving in money that can't be printed, and has a current inflation rate of less than 2%.

How do you think that response would work?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 24 Sep

I don't get it.

What's the alternative? It's too late for bitcoin, but not too late for fiat?

If they're not buying bitcoin, what are they buying? NVDA?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 24 Sep

I dont think normie. 🤷

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep

That makes so little sense. Is it because people still think you have to buy bitcoin in whole units?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Car 24 Sep

Yes. They have a fiat perspective on things. They say the same thing. “I brought in 2017 and sold it. I should’ve held it.” These are the new Bitcoiners we are getting this cycle. Based off of what I’m seeing locally. The other people say, “Well I should start buying it again a little at a time, I don’t need a whole coin right?”

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Slestak_Jack OP 25 Sep

"tell me more about that" It's not a video game token that you spend at the arcade. (80's kid here)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @standardcrypto 24 Sep

what is better, holding the kind of money the government can confiscate by pushing a button?

Or the kind where they can't.

bring up the handmaid's tale season one episode whatever it was, where all women's assets were frozen at the touch of a button.

Do you like being a victim?