We should stop saying that LN (Lightning Network) is a L2 !
When I see somebody calling LN as "one of many L2s" I call it scammer. Language is very important in this matter and scammers will always try to fool clueless newbies with fancy names.
LN is THE Bitcoin's payment network. That's it. No layer, no chain, no bullshit.
For those that are surprised by this position, I suggest to read in detail what is a HTLC.
Hashed Timelock Contracts (HTLCs) are the centerpiece of any Lightning transaction. While your Lightning Network channel is a 2-of-2 multisignature address with funds on the bitcoin blockchain, a HTLC is an output of an unconfirmed transaction to a separate “smart contract” address with the following properties:
- The smart contract can be spent by revealing a “secret’ together with a valid signature of the recipient
- The smart contract can be redeemed after a set amount of time together with a valid signature of the sender.
HTLCs with the above conditions also find application outside the Lightning Network. When used to transfer funds through a Lightning channel, a HTLC also comes with a third condition: - The smart contract can be spent immediately by someone presenting a revocation key.
Read more here: https://docs.lightning.engineering/the-lightning-network/multihop-payments/hash-time-lock-contract-htlc
In other words, the sats are NEVER going on another "layer" or "chain" or whatever. Are always on the same bitcoin chain, in a smart contract and delayed to be broadcast for a final settlement.
Any other crap L2 "layer" will REQUIRE a chain swap and will always depend on the existence of a LN channel liquidity to make that swap. So don't get drunk with water when somebody is telling you that some fancy new L2 will replace LN or you do not need a LN node and channels liquidity. They are LYING to you.
Start learning more about LN - THE Bitcoin's Payment Network.
I've wrote several guides about this, please read them.
Thank you for your attention in this matter.
Love the subtle point you are making. I think people use the L2 analogy because they either are just repeating what they have heard or they are trying to communicate to people that understand fiat payment systems.
One of the things that people do not understand in addition to this is that their fiat money, credit cards, and checks are not bearer assets in the way bitcoin is. During the gold standard era one could take cash and exchange it for gold. When I realized what bitcoin was, a digital money that is also a bearer asset it blew my mind. When I realized I could run my own node it blew my mind. When I realized I could run a lightning node and basically provide a BETTER and bearer asset version of an L2 it blew my mind. But I thought of it as an L2. And you are right. Its really not like the Credit card networks or "traditional" L2s. That's selling Lightning way too short.
Fully agree on the sentiment. That's also why I call LN the only real L2 currently available on Bitcoin. It's the only one that allows for unilateral exit. The rest claiming to be L2s are just affinity scams.
In hindsight, it was probably not a good idea to call LN an L2, but semantics are hard to change at this point.
those that come with the idea that are many "L2s" beside LN are the ones on the "dark side"...
We don't have to change the semantics now, but enough to educate properly the newbies.
I saw so many clueless newbies considering LN even as a separate chain LOL, like another "coin". The confusion is so big out there.
Yes, clueless newbies everywhere, see a personal anecdoate here #1452632.
Hah, speaking of semantics, I just realized you posted this in ~lightning, not in ~bitcoin :)
too many posts on bitcoin territory...
Who's to say that some other term wouldn't also have been abused by scammers.
This post is also a reminder for you. You are one of those that consider LN as an "offchain" thing... #1439870
Clearly your mind is influenced by those same scammers.
I was using the term "off-chain" in the context of Lightning before I even heard of any of the scams trying to capitalize on the term.
It's the same thing with "crypto". It used to just stand for cryptology. Now the word has been tainted by shitcoins.
Indeed the sats never change layers, just the communication to coordinate settlement... I think the L2 made sense at the time long ago... analogizing to the OSI model...
But lots of things make sense until the herd of dumbz arrive and poison the well
Scammers preying on the dumbz tried to co-opt the term L2, but we countered with Fake L2... so at least we have that.
The most literal description is that the chain is asynchronous and Lightning is synchronous... and no "L2" can be asynchronous despite their claims which is low hanging fruit to show they're scammers
see Rule 1
I live in Brazil, and here YouTubers make this mistake a lot, spreading incorrect information.
It's much simpler and more direct to explain it as a payment network rather than an L2 that refers to things like Liquid or other shitcoins. There are many people—and I've actually run into them—who tend to teach new bitcoiners that Lightning is a separate network and that the satoshis there aren't real bitcoin and similar things. Good clarity and education go a long way.
I'll be more careful when talking about LN, even though I don't think I've ever called it an L2, except maybe for convenience depending on the subject.
Liquid, ark, spark are not L2s. You can call them sidechains or statechains, but are not layers to Bitcoin.
If you want an example of a layer, you can consider a LNbits instance or an Alby hub with sub-accounts, as a layer... on top of your LN node. It still uses sats from LN channels, but is still not a sidechain.
Consider as Layer 2 the services build on top of LN, even like SN.
Conclusion: LN⚡ is Bitcoin. Anyone who says otherwise simply does not know what they are talking about.
This understanding is good for shielding your mind against shitcoin 2.0
Few.
So, the fact is:
Bitcoin Network is the settlement layer
Lightning Network is the payment layer.
The rest is just unnecessary confusions.
Thanks for the clarification
No layers. Just bitcoin.
No verification you ever use Bitcoin or LN...while endlessly virtue signalling that you 'live pn The Bitcoin Standard.
You just wank on about the technical details like an NSA spy paid to research and infiltrate the Bitcoin protocol and its community.
In fact you admit that here on SNs you never use LN- you prefer CCs because 'CCs always work'.
One of the LN improvement proposals is called eltoo
Right! In L2 slang, it means there's a new token on top of the main coin. In the case of LN, there’s no LN sats and timechain sats. They're all the same sats!