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This is my last comment on this topic
Claude:
Sure — here’s a quick recap of what I said across this chat:
- Tim Brown: Great, borderline inner-circle Hall of Famer, but more of a “compiler” than a generational talent — huge career volume (1,094 catches, 100 TDs, nine straight 1,000-yard seasons) built on longevity and consistency rather than big-play dominance (13.6 YPC is modest). No Super Bowl win, took 9 years to get into Canton. Your “overrated” instinct isn’t crazy, but he was legitimately great at his peak.
- Puka Nacua intro: Clarified who you meant (Rams WR) and asked what angle you wanted to discuss.
- “Most dominant WR since Rice” claim: Pushed back — his rookie/early production is historic (1,486 rookie yards, an NFL record), but “since Rice” is a high bar given Moss, Owens, Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Julio, Hopkins, Adams, and especially Justin Jefferson, who’s sustained similar or better dominance for longer with better health. Said it’s more accurate to call it one of the best starts to a career, not the most dominant stretch overall.
- Efficiency + eye test: Agreed his per-target numbers and physical/contested-catch ability are special, but noted recency bias — Jefferson, Chase, Moss, and Calvin Johnson all had similarly jaw-dropping stretches. Said Nacua’s case is strong for “best two-year debut” but needs 4-5 more healthy years to justify “most dominant since Rice.”
- Loving both Jefferson and Nacua: Said that’s a great spot to be in as a fan — no need to rank them yet, just enjoy watching two potential era-defining receivers develop.
Edit: I probably jinxed his career
Interesting that Antonio Brown wasn't mentioned. He was actually on pace to catch Rice through about 8 seasons until he completely imploded.
I remember the first time I saw Jerry Rice in 1986, my reaction was who is this guy, he is the best WR in the league with a backup QB (Montana was hurt for most of 1986)
His second year as a pro
I thought Moss was the best receiver in the league as soon as he hit the field. He had a shit QB too, which might have actually helped him, since he had to attempt more spectacular catches from off-target throws.
1998 was his rookie year, Randall Cunningham was his QB, Vikings were 15-1
maybe he was a shit QB but he was not shit in 1998
I forgot Cunningham was there. Was thinking of Culpepper.
I knew they had a great record.
Dolphins picked Dante over Drew Brees in 2006
They were concerned about his shoulder or torn labrum but not concerned with Dante's knee problems
1998 Atlanta beat Vikings in OT in NFC title game, head coach was Dan Reeves
1998 Viking HC was Dennis Green, OC was Brian Billick
Wow! I had their QB sequence way off.
Moss was traded to the Raiders in 2005 then traded to the Patriots in 2007 then traded to Vikings in 2010
had a brief cameo with 49ers in 2012
That’s why I thought Culpepper was there earlier. I thought he was one of Moss’ QBs.
iirc, Cunningham, Jeff George then Dante Culpepper who was drafted in 2000 or 2001
Culpepper panicked under pressure, once his knees were shot, he could not evade pass rush
1 quarterback, 2 quarterblacks
bad joke
edit: I liked Randall Cunningham, never a fan of Jeff George or Dante Culpepper
The Rams lost to Seattle because of their special teams and secondary
The offense was not the problem, MacDonald doesn't have a cheat code for Puka
49ers new DC is Raheem Morris who should have inside information about the Rams offense
Was there a cheat code for Tim Brown? of course not because he didn't play in big games and when he did he was invisible
The Raiders stunk through his entire prime. He was already in his mid-30's when they were good. You're holding longevity against him, when most guys can't even make a roster at that age.
In his prime they were in exactly two playoff games and he had 213 yards and 2 TDs.
Btw, as I was digging into this, I discovered that your Chargers probably had the only great WR before Rice. Lance Alworth was 1st Team All Pro 6x and was putting up modern receiving numbers in the 60's.
Sid Gillman
The AFL in general innovated a lot of the modern passing game. Lamonica was also known for the deep ball.
Bill Walsh said his two biggest influences were Al Davis and Sid Gillman
mad bomber
There is no certainly no other WR that is the same kind of threat that Puka is. as you say he is built like a TE but can also play like a small shifty slot WR.