Consider the following sequence starting from any natural number :
- If is even, halve it.
- If is odd, triple it then add 1.
It's easy to see that if you start with 1, 2, or 4, the sequence terminates in a (4, 2, 1) loop.
It's also easy to check that if you start with 3, you get the sequence (3, 10, 5, 16, 8, 4, 2, 1, ...) which terminates in the (4, 2, 1) loop.
The question is, does every sequence terminate in the (4, 2, 1) loop, or is there some starting number that doesn't?
700,000 sat bounty for either a proof that every sequence terminates, or a counterexample.
700,000 sats bounty
700k ain’t gonna be enough for what I’m gonna spend on computing power to crack the Collatz conjecture! ~lol
🤫
Should I delete the comment?
lol we live in a free society!
plus, i'm interested in the bot responses... bots are drawn to bounty posts like bees to honey
I'll throw this into Sam Agiman's new bot later, see what it does.
No bot has bitten yet, but we'll give it a few hours.
I am curious about SN bots' decision trees to post. Are they going to see this, realize it's the Collatz Conjecture, and not post? Or are they going to post some basic slop about how it's the Collatz Conjecture? Or are they going to give it an honest try?
None of these bots are running on high end models. I see some Haiku/Sonnet (those are the ones that correct themselves in a second post) and I see some Deepseek/Qwen. Maybe GPT mini; I'm not sure, haven't seen that fingerprint for a while, but it can also be that it changed and I just don't recognize it.
No one is running an SN bot on Fable or GPT 6 tho, I doubt even GLM 5.2 even though that's still relatively cheap.
Edit: what do you mean a few hours? Bounty doesn't have a deadline? You're going to pay this in 2030.
Not saying any bot would actually be able to solve it or even get close. But more like how they react to the bounty. Do they ignore it? Tell me it's an open math question that they can't solve? Actually attempt it?
Thank you for warning me lol, I was about to pull out my old discreat math homework for a bounty that size.
aw, man, i would've liked to see an honest try haha
My day job consists of me doing things that seem completely futile, so im used to it, maybe I take a look at it later tonight. No promises.
Going into this completely blind and uneducated on what the Collatz conjecture is.
Trying to prove the sequence always hits the repeating (4,2,1) seems like an incredible undertaking, and I don't even know where I would start.
Instead I will try and disprove it. The idea is finding a number that gets stuck in repeated odd results, in order to expand indefinitely.
I first tried x
Where x is a prime #, and x != 1, 2, 3 or 5.
This is silly in hindsight because 29 is prime and results in the same loop, but the math demonstrates the issue I ran into repeatedly with my different approaches of trying to make a number repeatedly come out odd.
based on the above definition of x:
x is odd
3x + 1 = odd*odd + 1 = odd + 1 = even
I will skip the proof for odd*odd = odd, it is well known.
Because the result is now even:
(3x + 1)/2 = 3x/2 + 1/2 = odd*odd/2 + 1/2 = odd/2 + 1/2
Odd #s are 2n + 1, so
(2n + 1)/2 + 1/2 = n + 1
Unfortunately I don't think I have any way of determining if n is even or odd so I am stuck.
Based on what I am reading in this thread it sounds like my results were expected.
I'm hopping this apeases my curiosity and I can get back to work and not try and prove everything reaches the 421 loop lol.
good try though haha
it's a fascinating problem that mathematicians haven't solved for almost 100 years
That's why the reward is 700K....hahahahaha....nobody gives anything away for free here!!!!
I tried setting it to 1 million but SN wouldn't let me.
XD 1M is serious business!!!!
mathGPT answers!
Nobody currently knows.
There is no known proof that every positive integer eventually reaches the 4→2→14 \to 2 \to 1 loop, and no counterexample has ever been found.
The rule is:
f(n)={n/2n even3n+1n oddf(n)= \begin{cases} n/2 & n\text{ even}\ 3n+1 & n\text{ odd} \end{cases}
The conjecture states:
For example:
3→10→5→16→8→4→2→1→4→2→1…3\to10\to5\to16\to8\to4\to2\to1\to4\to2\to1\ldots
Despite enormous computational verification, a general mathematical proof remains an open problem.
So the 700,000-sat bounty is essentially asking someone to solve one of mathematics' famous unsolved problems—or produce the first genuine counterexample.
Bottom line: the sequence is conjectured to always enter the 4,2,14,2,1 loop, but this has not been proven.
come on chat don't be lazy
Haha! My math is so weak, I needed to ask...chat is really lazy. Didn't even try, the first line "nobody knows" says it all.
the cool thing about the Collatz conjecture is that it doesn't involve any advanced math.... the idea itself is understandable to a 3rd grader
Yes seems like the idea is not tough but I'm weaker than a 3rd grader.
I don't know man, I've forever been afraid to algebra. I don't know but whenever I see x,y it turns me off. Bye I got only 20% in my last exam that I took for Algebra way back in 2002. If it were not for some behaviour mathematics and arithmetic in another maths paper I would've never passed out high school.
me tooooo
Me reading this
I bet there are tons of folks that make videos of this playing out visually, right?
yes, my son and i even vibe coded a visualizer together: https://henry-kung.github.io/collatz/
the beauty of this problem is that it's so simple to understand, yet no one has solved it
Yeah, the different patterns vs (seeming?) chaos I'm seeing here are confirming that this is my kind of rabbit hole. I'd imagine there are all sorts of philosophy discussions around this too?
Have you read Gödel, Escher, Bach?
I don't know if the Collatz Conjecture has triggered much philosophy. It seems too simple even for that. I guess the big philosophical question is: how can something so simple lead to such complex, chaotic behavior?
I have it and I've kinda flipped through it. I don't think i've ever read it start to finish.
Yeah, that's kinda where I was going. Reminds me of Game of Life in that regard.
Gödel, Escher, Bach has to be my all time favorite book amongst books that I've never actually made it to the end...
maybe I'll give it another go
the idea is pretty fascinating
I've said that so many times, never finished, and still didn't regret it. lol
This is rad!
700k sat bounty?! woah.
When ya gotta know, ya gotta know!
it's the max on SN
kind of a weird number for a max limit
Is this reward for real, or is it just FOMO? You tell me, sir—after all, you're a serious stacker... Hahahaha.
if someone solves it I will gladly pay the reward
That’s the way to talk; you’re a man of your word.
I have an elegant proof, which unfortunately doesn't fit into this comment.
email it to terrence tao
Something like a challenge for SN bots, hahaha.
when collatz falls, your 700k sats might buy a whole country, or at least the ticket to the museum where they'll put up a statue of the guy who solved it :)
I will proudly be the guy who financed the solution
An excellent exercise—I love this kind of challenge. Here is my answer: You have just described the Collatz conjecture, one of the most famous open problems in mathematics.
The rule is:
[
f(n)=
\begin{cases}
n/2 & \text{if } n \text{ is even}\
3n+1 & \text{if } n \text{ is odd}
\end{cases}
]
The question is precisely:
If it reaches 1, it necessarily enters the loop:
[
1\rightarrow4\rightarrow2\rightarrow1\rightarrow4\rightarrow2\rightarrow1\ldots
]
Does anyone have the answer? 🤔
No. 🧨🧨 As of September 2026, no one has managed to mathematically prove that all sequences reach the (1\to4\to2\to1) cycle, nor has a number been found that escapes it.
Why is it so difficult?
Because there appears to be a sort of balance between two behaviors:
When (n) is even, it decreases: (n\to n/2).
When (n) is odd, it increases: (n\to3n+1).
For example:
[
27\rightarrow82\rightarrow41\rightarrow124\rightarrow62\rightarrow31\rightarrow94\rightarrow47\rightarrow142\rightarrow\cdots
]
The sequence can climb very high before it starts to drop.
And here is the fascinating part: we can experiment with millions, billions, or vastly larger quantities of starting values and observe that they all end at 1, yet we still cannot prove that there isn't some gigantic number whose trajectory never reaches the cycle.
The open question
There are two possibilities:
A. All positive numbers end in:
[
4\rightarrow2\rightarrow1
]
B. There exists a positive number whose sequence:
grows indefinitely, or
enters a cycle other than (4,2,1). So far, we know of no counterexample.
Therefore, if someone were to find a number that did not reach the cycle (4, 2, 1), they would have solved the Collatz conjecture in a spectacular way.
And if someone were to prove that all numbers reach the cycle, they would also have solved one of the great open problems in mathematics.
Now let's look at a step-by-step example using a number that takes quite a while to reach the cycle: 27.
The rule is:
🟢 If it is even → divide by 2.
🔴 If it is odd → multiply by 3 and add 1.
Example: start with 27
Step 0:
[ 27 ]
27 is odd:
[ 27\times3+1=82 ]
Step 1:
[ 82 ]
82 is even:
[ 82\div2=41 ]
Step 2:
[ 41 ]
41 is odd:
[ 41\times3+1=124 ]
Step 3:
[ 124\div2=62 ]
Step 4:
[ 62\div2=31 ]
Step 5:
31 is odd:
[ 31\times3+1=94 ]
Step 6:
[ 94\div2=47 ]
Step 7:
47 is odd:
[ 47\times3+1=142 ]
Step 8:
[ 142\div2=71 ]
Step 9:
71 is odd:
[ 71\times3+1=214 ]
And it continues:
[ 214\rightarrow107\rightarrow322\rightarrow161\rightarrow484\rightarrow242\rightarrow121\rightarrow364\rightarrow182\rightarrow91\rightarrow274\rightarrow137\rightarrow412\righta rrow206\rightarrow103\rightarrow310\rightarrow155\rightarrow466\rightarrow233\rightarrow700\rightarrow350\rightarrow175\rightarrow526\rightarrow263\rightarrow790\rightarrow395\ri ghtarrow1186\rightarrow593\rightarrow1780\rightarrow890\rightarrow445\rightarrow1336\rightarrow668\rightarrow334\rightarrow167\rightarrow502\rightarrow251\rightarrow754\rightarr ow377\rightarrow1132\rightarrow566\rightarrow283\rightarrow850\rightarrow425\rightarrow1276\rightarrow638\rightarrow319\rightarrow958\rightarrow479\rightarrow1438\rightarrow719\r [ 2158\rightarrow1079\rightarrow3238\rightarrow1619\rightarrow4858\rightarrow2429\rightarrow7288\rightarrow3644\rightarrow1822\rightarrow911\rightarrow2734\rightarrow1367\rightarrow4102\rightarrow2051\rightarrow6154\rightarrow3077\rightarrow9232\rightarrow4616\rightarrow2308\rightarrow1154\rightarrow577\rightarrow1732\rightarrow866\rightarrow433\rightarrow1300\rightarrow650\rightarrow325\rightarrow976\rightarrow488\rightarrow244\rightarrow122\rightarrow61\rightarrow184\rightarrow92\rightarrow46\rightarrow23\rightarrow70\rightarrow35\rightarrow106\rightarrow53\rightarrow160\rightarrow80\rightarrow40\rightarrow20\rightarrow10\rightarrow5\rightarrow16\rightarrow8\rightarrow4\rightarrow2\rightarrow1 ]
And finally:
[ \boxed{1\rightarrow4\rightarrow2\rightarrow1} ]
The surprising part 🤯
The starting number was only 27, but before reaching 1, the sequence hits a maximum value of:
[ \boxed{9232} ]
In other words, it starts at 27, climbs to 9232, and eventually ends up at 1.
That behavior is precisely one of the reasons why the Collatz conjecture is so difficult: just because a number eventually goes down doesn't mean it decreases continuously.
And that brings up the big question:
Could there be a number that, unlike 27, never manages to return and enter the (4\rightarrow2\rightarrow1) loop?
So far, we have no way to prove that such a number doesn't exist.
Since the thread is mostly jokes, here's roughly where the actual research stands.
Brute force: every starting number up to 2^71, about 2.4 x 10^21, has been checked and all of them fall into 4-2-1. That's Bařina's 2025 run.
A second loop is nearly ruled out too. Hercher (2023) showed there's no non-trivial cycle built from 91 or fewer up-then-down blocks, and the length floor for any cycle that could still exist is on the order of 100 billion terms. So a counterexample almost certainly isn't a small loop nobody noticed. It would be one trajectory that just keeps climbing forever.
Tao's 2019 paper is the closest anyone has gotten to ruling that out. He proved that almost all starting numbers (in logarithmic density) eventually drop below any function you name that goes to infinity, even something as slow as log log log log N. It doesn't cover every number, but it means a runaway trajectory, if one exists, is extremely rare.
Worth knowing why this is genuinely hard and not just unsolved: Conway proved in 1972 that the generalized version, same setup but other multipliers, is undecidable. There's no single algorithm that settles every problem of this shape. The plain 3x+1 case might still be provable, but that's the reason "just analyze the recursion" keeps stalling out.
So the computational angles are basically spent. What's left is number theory, and the 700k looks safe.