Lightning using Phoenix vs Cardano using Exodus
201 sats \ 13 comments \ @ek 9 Jun 2023 bitcoin
In a previous post, I asked how to best onboard new users to Lightning during high mempool fees because of a friend. That friend asked me again for some help and we made a deal:
He will download Phoenix and I will send him some sats and then he will send them back to me. I will also download a wallet to receive and send Cardano in turn.
My conclusion is that Lightning is "objectively" superior for the following reasons:
  • Cheaper: You only pay a higher channel open fee on Lightning. That's 3k sats for 200k sats received on Phoenix for example. On Cardano, it's always a onchain fee which is higher than fees on Lightning (which can be as low as 1-5 sats). So Lightning fees scale better.
  • Micropayments: You can't send less than 1 ADA - at least on Exodus, don't know if that's a network limit or just wallet limit. You also can't send amounts which leave you with less than 1 ADA. Using Phoenix, you can send as low as one sat. In fact, Lightning uses millisats internally.
me trying to send back the 50 ADA I received
  • Privacy: ADA uses onchain addresses and Exodus even reuses addresses. I was able to find the whole balance of the wallet of my friend using the blockchain explorer using our transaction IDs.
  • Mindset: The whole app seems to be more about trading than actually using the network for what it's supposed to be used. I didn't even find how to receive something without asking my friend. There are also invite codes for better trading fees:
where is the send and receive button?
if you invite people, you earn 20% of their trading fees
@padde now joined SN and told me that he will introduce himself in the following days :)
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200 sats \ 3 replies \ @orthwyrm 9 Jun 2023
The only advantage I can think of here is that you can receive offline payments for cheaper than you could with on-chain Bitcoin, I guess???
Granted you could use literally any other coin in the same way. And this wouldn't be terribly reliable... Cardano's devs saw no need to implement a fee market, so their mempool just sorta clogs up and stops accepting new transactions during periods of heavy usage. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek OP 9 Jun 2023
lol, there is no fee market?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @orthwyrm 9 Jun 2023
Yeah... They instead opted for some formulaic method for determining fees:
https://docs.cardano.org/explore-cardano/fee-structure/
So it's like a fixed fee, first come first serve kinda model.
The network stopped accepting new transactions a few times due to some NFT drops clogging the network a couple years back. I dunno if they ever fixed it, but I suspect not.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 9 Jun 2023
lol, they have mechanism to update tx fees which results in a hardfork ...
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @CoSatoshi 9 Jun 2023
"You can't send less than 1 ADA - at least on Exodus, don't know if that's a network limit or just wallet limit."
FWIW: that's a wallet limit, not a network limit despite what it says on Exodus, just FYI.
Glad you found that LN is objectively better than ADA, though I'm not surprised!
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @btcthinker 9 Jun 2023
It doesn't make sense if the number of users of ADA is too small, and the cost of ADA will be high when there are many users. The blockchain itself is a limited resource. Unlimited use will overwhelm the storage of nodes, and the number of users who are willing to execute nodes will be greatly reduced, and gradually centralized.
The TPS that can only be achieved in the data center are meaningless, which means that you don't need a blockchain, what you need is a professional database.
Most of the shitcoin are just confusing newbies, because they need to sell you shitcoin.
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @nerd2ninja 9 Jun 2023
I'm sorry you had to risk $16 on a shitcoin to prove this. I'm proud of you for being so brave and I'm happy you managed to get through this without a rugpull
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50 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 9 Jun 2023
That 50 ADA weren't mine. He sent them to me
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32 sats \ 2 replies \ @larestrepo 9 Jun 2023 freebie
You are fundamentally wrong in all your comparisos. First of all you are comparing a layer 2 like lightning with layer 1 like Cardano. In terms of fees is equivalent of comparing Bitcoin with lightning itself. There are layer 2 solutions in Cardano FYI and a comparison between these 2 would make more sense. Second, your user experience is narrowed to a wallet, exodus, which by the way is very closed to a centralized exchange. So in this case is like comparing your user experience with something like binance and the lightning experience. In fact in exodus you cannot stake your ada to any pool different than the ones from exodus which means you don't really own those Ada's in exodus. Invite codes for better trading fees? Really? Do you really think is this coming from Cardano? Again is like thinking that a trading fee in binance is something coming from Bitcoin protocol.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 9 Jun 2023
Seems like I forgot to mention that my friend told me about Exodus. It wasn't my pick.
I guess that wasn't clear.
Maybe you can tell me about these layer 2 solutions and wallets I should have used to compare with Lightning? Then I can make another post.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 9 Jun 2023
How am I "fundamentally wrong" about all my comparisons if I just compared two wallets and showed you screenshots?
Exodus is the one my friend told me about. I said I am comparing wallets. That's it.
Any other conclusion is on you.
There are layer 2 solutions in Cardano FYI and a comparison between these 2 would make more sense.
I didn't know that, thanks!
Invite codes for better trading fees? Really? Do you really think is this coming from Cardano?
Did I say that?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @iguano 10 Jun 2023
good comparative, thanks for sharing.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 9 Jun 2023
Btw, Exodus has integrated Lightning and uses WoS:
And here are the Lightning fees:
me being dumb and first sending a smaller amount from which Phoenix will deduct 3k sats to open a channel
me to him to open a bigger channel
him to me
him to me using LN address
not going to post ADA onchain tx for privacy reasons
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