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20 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 27 Jul 2023 \ parent \ on: "I" vs "we" from an economic perspective bitcoin
Believe it baby! Some of us do believe in the emergent order of consensual behavior. That doesn't mean we have no concern for the social layer. Rather, it means we believe the social layer emerges from the incentives inherent in a commitment to a non-coercive social order.
It isn't that surprising when you think about how a commitment to property rights inherently means some form of a commitment to mutual protection from harm. At some level, there would have to be mutually agreed to terms. That implies people who seek to live coercive lifestyles have to be somehow removed. If there's no one around doing coercive stuff, what's the big concern about the "social layer"?
Mainly, I don't think it's enough. It's never been enough, anywhere, ever -- more structure always emerges. You have property rights, sound money, etc., and then your neighbor starts doing something that pisses you off that is not exactly coercive, but out-of-bounds. Everyone around you agrees that there's something wrong with this asshole. And social structure emerges. Somebody winds up 'coercing' somebody else in the end.
Keynes and Hayek had an exchange after H published "The Road to Serfdom" where Keynes basically said (paraphrasing): "I am totally on board with this, it's great, except: how are you going to realize it in practice? What, literally, are you going to do?" Which I think is telling. If you have to get really concrete about what to do in realistic circumstances, the simplistic things fall away.
But this, or something like it, has been litigated since Plato, and we're not going to resolve it on SN. I appreciate you riffing with me a bit on the topic, it is more real than random Twitter drive-bys, and helps me get perspective.
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Same. It was a fun little chat.
Btw,
more structure always emerges
is exactly the relevant concern. Maybe we are too optimistic in thinking a society can ward off the emergence of a coercive structure by building out sufficient voluntary structures. We're a long way from a world where that's relevant, though.
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