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1010 sats \ 16 replies \ @DarthCoin 22 Sep 2023 \ on: What's your weakest definition of a self custodial lightning wallet? bitcoin
You are missing a key aspect in this.
You start from the misinterpretation that in order to have full custody, you must run a public node.
That's mislead many new bitcoiners into the space.
As I explained in this guide about private nodes:
https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/private-lightning-nodes
You can run perfectly full nodes without public routing, if you just want to use LN in a private mode.
Public routing is NOT for each of the plebs that just want to pay his beer over LN with his own node!
Public routing nodes are more for large liquidity providers LSP that will help (a lot) the small other private nodes. If you have balls and large capitals, ok go ahead, but do not start your LN node with public channels of 100k sats. You are doing more harm than good to the entire network!
Read more here:
- https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lightning-wallets-comparison
- https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/recommendations-for-ln-users
- https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/getting-started-ln
- https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lightning-routing-fees-experiment
- https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/managing-lightning-node-liquidity
Do not complicate your life when could be easy.
This question was not about private channels/stub nodes vs public channels/routing nodes, it applies to all types of nodes. It is about signing transactions and safely making the decision on what transactions to sign.
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I would say for a minimalist setup to use neutrino.
Depends also for what do you want to use such scenario. What are you building now?
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Continuing to build Distributed Charge and StaticWire with the same design goal of using your own node. However, I'm getting concerned with all the talk about "hosted and managed self custodial" nodes from others in the marketplace. It seems very misleading and I'd like to start some dialog against that, but first trying to gauge other peoples' opinion on the matter.
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Distributed Charge is a fascinating idea. Let me know if you’d like some help making the website more mobile-friendly, would be glad to help
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You can find my contact information here: http://andyschroder.com/contact/ . Would be glad to hear from you on your ideas.
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I don't know this very well is quite new, but maybe worth looking into UTREEXO
https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/explain-utreexo/
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Would be an interesting use case if you can use Greenlight for that superb DC machine. Could simplify a lot the whole process to setup and you still keep control of the whole node.
I know is quite new but you know that bitcoiners are reckless.
Make a test, break things, learn.
The other aspect here is the liquidity. LSP. How you would manage that?
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The question is , do you really "keep full control of the whole node" with greenlight? You previously said that "for a minimalist setup to use neutrino". I'd argue that full control with greenlight is an exaggeration. What local validation do you actually do with greenlight? If you are just blindly signing things, do you really have control?
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I think apps using greenlight are supposed to run the client half of the validating lightning signer protocol, where they check all the important details of the transaction before signing.
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How do you check "all the important details" without reviewing public blockchain data? Seems like you might be able to check some stuff but not all.
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I'm actually not completely sure about that. I think the greenlight server provides some sorts of compressed proofs about the the transactions, but I don't know how it works exactly.
Indeed.
A btcd or bitcoin core + LND with neutrino could minimize the setup, if you really want to keep all on you.
Using Greenlight or trustedcoin from fiatjaf you will connect to a "trusted" validator, you are not in charge of that code base but you are still ok. You can change the validator any time you want, if that's the case.
In my opinion is OK to use Greenlight or trustedcoin for such scenario you want to use.
Again, depends how far you want to go with the whole "sovereignty" of your node.
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What do you mean by "you are not in charge of that code base but you are still ok"?
I think it's okay to use those services if you want to for sure, I think the main point of this thread and my poll is whether you can call that a "self custodial" lightning wallet or not. I don't think you can, and I think it's misleading to do so. I think another name should be created for these "blind signing" nodes. If we don't challenge the wording, the service providers will still keep calling them "self custodial" and continue to mislead people.
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yes there's a lot of confuse wording in all this, agreed.
code base = the core node blocks and stuff, version of the chain etc
Here some other links:
- Trustedcoin - by fiatjaf a lightweight btc node sync
- Neutrino node
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