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Can Value4Value replace Ads?
5586 sats \ 27 comments \ @phaedrus 20 Oct 2023 bitcoin
I used to think that V4V with Lightning was obvious, but kinda surprised that most of internet runs on Ads, so I've been talking to various people about it and tried to write down the summary: https://bitcoinpolis.gitlab.io/posts/2023/10/20/v4v-ads.html
What do you guys think? Any other advantages or reasons why Ads monetization model is so successful? Any interesting projects tackling this space?
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354 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 20 Oct 2023
Pretty good observations on why Ads are used so many. This one I didn’t realize: 6/ Smooths out inequality: different consumers pays different price for the same content and nobody complains. Ie. wealthier people who buy more stuff through ads are subsidizin the people who don’t buy as much.
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254 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 21 Oct 2023
No. It's one business model among many possible. What is reasonable to expect is that an internet that has usable money integrated deeply into it will make non-ad-models 10x more feasible, and therefore there should be waaaay more ad-free, semi-pro content.
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1662 sats \ 2 replies \ @davidw 20 Oct 2023
Like the question. My 2 sats are:
  • Ads will exist, but their influence will be much less in future.
  • If people have less disposable income to spend, the ads will become prohibitively expensive.
  • Not to mention tracking is proving more challenging given big tech is limiting micro-targeting.
  • Also, I wonder if we all in 10 years were to have a personal AI, why do you need adverts? When it knows what you want and will buy/recommend the things you need and want. They will know us better than ourselves.
  • I feel like we've been living in an advertising bubble these last 10 years. The internet experience has got so out of whack on a user experience level, with clickbait titles, free returns, fast-fashion, privacy popups and the like. It's not going to sustain itself. It's too distorted.
  • Value on all fronts is making a comeback. We'll all be supporting each other much more within our communities I expect.
  • Just look at SN flourishing today. It's a model that has traction & growth. Ads will exist but instead of being 80-90% of revenue for content creators, I believe it will be back to 15-20%. Creators are going to need to hustle again and that's the way it should be if we want a productive society.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @phaedrus OP 23 Oct 2023
Great points.
Regards personal AI. I think Ads still provide exploration, ie. discovering things you didn't know about otherswise. (the original reason for ads)
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 21 Oct 2023
Great points. I also see sats as payment on the internet. A few sats to read an article, listen to a song, watch a video, etc.
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123 sats \ 3 replies \ @kristapsk 21 Oct 2023
No, I don't think V4V will replace ads.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @phaedrus OP 23 Oct 2023
Why not?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kristapsk 27 Oct 2023
Most of the people don't want to pay for the stuff.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 10 Nov 2023
With v4v they don't have to
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700 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheBTCManual 21 Oct 2023
No, and I doubt it ever will, I think v4v has its place but it will remain a fringe way of monetisation
  • Fiat versions already exist like Pateon and Substack right now which work for most people who want to sell content directly to users
  • Internet users are used to not paying for content
  • There is always someone willing to pay for traffic, so if you don't have display or text ads you will just get more sponsored content - disclosed or undisclosed $601.84 billion worth of ad spent annually has to go somewhere
  • If you paywall v4v you create friction and push users away - higher bounce rate
  • If you don't pay wall, very few people feel like they need to pay, thinking someone else will
  • Ads be it direct deals or network deals can be a stable/predictable source of income so creators can set a runway and commit capital to improving production quality
  • Ads are a subsidy for reach - the advertiser pays hoping they reach an LSM that generates an ROI while the rest who aren't in that LSM get to enjoy the content without charge
  • Ads also create audiences and data sets that are valuable to businesses for profiling, v4 doesn't
  • People still feel like they're "supporting" creators by watching ads
  • Your content doesn't have to be good to get ad monetisation, it just needs to get views so you see low-effort content spammed out, ai videos, reaction content, rage bait, clickbait etc
  • The audience you target might not be a niche with a lot of disposable income so your v4v conversion rate is low for the effort and time you put in
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @phaedrus OP 23 Oct 2023
Great points!
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220 sats \ 0 replies \ @Actuary 20 Oct 2023
Maybe a hybrid model could be effective until we can get people switched over to lightning. Include ads and a lightning option to offer more content (or merch).
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140 sats \ 0 replies \ @fred 21 Oct 2023
This is possible and is already happening as most platform go into V4V models
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @2bithits 21 Oct 2023
V4V might work but I get the feeling it will be the top 1% dominating like usual.
Aggressive advertising can be annoying. More passive advertising like simply putting your info out there for consumers to find seems reasonable
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @chungkingexpress 21 Oct 2023
I hope V4V fixes ads and streaming. I am not sure where this complaint is directed: I usually avoid legacy media, but I wanted to watch a mainstream programme here in New Zealand as it was covering some Bitcoin mining topics. It was frustrating dealing with ads, having to sign up for the 'On demand' service and in the end I could not even take screenshots without disabling Hardware Acceleration.
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20 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct 2023
In short no. But that's OK. I wrote about the origins of V4V while back. Lightning makes V4V easier and people are tired of ads so I do think we will see a reduction in ad supported things but it will never go away. Also there are some things that dont work with the ad model and others with V4V.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @phaedrus OP 23 Oct 2023
Broken link? @kepford
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 23 Oct 2023
Yes, here is the link.
#260178
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @BITC0IN 20 Oct 2023
No.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zepasta 20 Oct 2023
https://imgprxy.stacker.news/CiqeU5rB-LmVOf-De13exmCedvDBjIACmyW9galhyGQ/rs:fit:2560:1440/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWFnZS5ub3N0ci5idWlsZC9hM2IwM2Y2MzRhNmYyNGZhMjU1MDE2ZGZmM2UwOTE5NjhmY2QyNjVkY2I4OGNhNmNiZTVkOTUzMTFkMjk0YzdlLmpwZw
Another flashbang link... great.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 27 Oct 2023
Alternative take FTR I think ads come in all shapes, sizes and formats. I suspect in the future ads and their presence will be so pervasive that each of us could just become a walking advertisement. It will be one of the last touches after nature. Right now value4value instead of ads does work for popular podcasts, make no mistake about that.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @lawndough 22 Oct 2023
I don’t think it’ll replace ads, but I do think there will be a mix of ads and V4V.
I’m currently building a product where users can trade an pseudonymous ID that replaces cookies in exchange for a share of ad spend used to show them ads. My hope is, the ID will incentivize large ad buyers to actually pay consumers for access to it. As users earn money, they will then be able to seamlessly spend it with publishers who create quality content.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @phaedrus OP 23 Oct 2023
Very cool. Can you share link to what you are building?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @lawndough 24 Oct 2023
Sure- it's called UPAID (pronounced you paid) and it's an acronym for User Provided Advertising ID.
https://upaid.website/
Would love to hear your thoughts.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @billiam 21 Oct 2023
I would like to have the option. As much as I totally hate the ads on my favorite podcasts, someone has to make money. I'd pay 5000 sats / episode for Breedlove's or McCormack's show in order to get rid of the f.cking ads (wasabi wallet etc.). Love what Odell is doing.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @phaedrus OP 23 Oct 2023
What is Odell doing?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @billiam 24 Oct 2023
No ads, only v4v podcast.
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