A perfect visualization of how absurd KYC/AML is
8658 sats \ 37 comments \ @birdeye21 22 Oct 2023 bitcoin
Europol estimates that the EU is spending ~€140 billion on KYC/AML compliance costs each year.
Meanwhile, only ~€1.2 billion in criminal funds are confiscated each year.
Just how valuable is privacy invasion to these tyrants? They're willing to spend 100x more than what they benefit from implementing KYC.
This also doesn't mention how KYC creates countless data honeypots that get leaked time and time again, beyond the direct € (or $ or whatever) costs to enable this privacy risk...
The shared link is a wonderful read if you're curious for more on the topic.
We're living among psychopaths, and they're not the bitcoiners...
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1821 sats \ 8 replies \ @MattInTech 22 Oct 2023
As someone working in the financial industry, I can confirm that KYC requirements imposed by the EU are kind of nuts for every financial institution. Not only because (to some extent) they harm privacy beyond any reasonable suspicion that someone can commit money laundering, but the fact just mentioned creates a very dangerous way of thinking. Basically, European policymakers are telling financial institutions: “operate as if all your clients are fraudsters, even if there’s no reasonable proof of this fact”. I find this deeply disturbing, and borderline disgusting to be honest.
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53 sats \ 5 replies \ @BlokchainB 22 Oct 2023
Why don’t the constituents in the EU ever change this law? Do they have a lobby problem like the US?
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99 sats \ 3 replies \ @MattInTech 22 Oct 2023
I think the issue is how European directives are implemented at the national level. There’s no real/effective way to directly protest a European directive as a citizen, the best that you can do is to protest against the implementation of such directive by your national government. The problem is that:
  • except for rare occasions, in Europe is far less common than in the US or Canada to protest against governments. Citizens are way less invested in the political life of their country, I guess.
  • National governments can always say: “it’s a European directive, there’s nothing we can do about it”
  • National governments can always say: “all the other member states are implementing it, so there’s no reason for us not to do it”
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52 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlokchainB 22 Oct 2023
But then brexit happened right? Everyone knows if Germany pulls out the EU it’s finished. But I think it is a lot of apathy the same reason the west sort of ignores bitcoin
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88 sats \ 1 reply \ @om 22 Oct 2023
Yes but then UK banks close ~1000 accounts daily. Looks like EU wasn't the source of the problem, although EU does make the problem worse.
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48 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Oct 2023
Yeah, the classic mistake of thinking the problem is the EU and not the institutions themselves.
In the US some are afraid of nationalists but not globalists. They are both statists that want centralized power over the masses. They are both flawed.
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50 sats \ 0 replies \ @oli 23 Oct 2023
See the FATF. It's basically a worldwide governing body and if they're not happy with your country, you get blacklisted from the financial system.
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24 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 22 Oct 2023
Guilty until proven innocent! When has that ever gone wrong...
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52 sats \ 0 replies \ @MattInTech 22 Oct 2023
Precisely. And this is a very strong argument for having something truly free and decentralized as Bitcoin. I’m personally not a “fuck fiat” radical, but it feels great to have an alternative to the common financial system and its nonsense.
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510 sats \ 5 replies \ @CruncherDefi 22 Oct 2023
Meanwhile, only ~€1.2 billion in criminal funds are confiscated each year. (...) They're willing to spend 100x more than what they benefit from implementing KYC.
That is very shallow analysis and poor reasoning. For better reasoning make a counterfactual analysis.
What happens in the case of not doing an intervention? Perhaps not doing an intervention increases criminal liquidity flow 1000x and it's still net positive to make an intervention?
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182 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 22 Oct 2023
I'm a brainlet im sorry, it truly wasnt very deep analysis, just found it to be an intriguing share from the linked post I was reading
The author does expand just below those charts on what those costs are going towards, in a much more understood way than I could
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96 sats \ 1 reply \ @TwoLargePizzas 23 Oct 2023
You make a good point but I'll raise you one more.
Does KYC actually stop the criminals at all? Perhaps the criminals are not stupid and they still manage to flow their funds around regardless of KYC.
I found this chart on illustrate my point. I don't even know how you can measure such a thing because by definition, these criminals are trying to hide. But even if the chart isn't accurate the point still stands. If KYC isn't actually lowering crime it's doing more harm than good.
And even if KYC was lowering crime it's still targeting the wrong problem. Holding and transferring money is not illegal. Selling drugs might be illegal but that's because of the drugs, not the money.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @erict875 27 Oct 2023
Exactly! Another classical case of the seen vs. the unsern.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @cyberpunk02 23 Oct 2023
Perhaps not doing an intervention increases criminal liquidity flow 1000x
I don't see how this could be reasonable, the difference between cash payments and online bank transactions for physical deliveries is not that high. 10x max, I think your getting wild with your "powers" 😉
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @CruncherDefi 23 Oct 2023
My reply was not about specific numbers. It was about reasoning framework.
I just picked some numbers showing that backward 'conclusion' is possible given some variable values.
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122 sats \ 1 reply \ @Zepasta 22 Oct 2023
deleted by author
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 22 Oct 2023
🎯
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233 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rsync25 22 Oct 2023
KYC/AML only benefits the King's friends (Exchanges with lobby) and the State itself
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1540 sats \ 2 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 22 Oct 2023
Realizing I accidentally posted the Worldwide chart...yeah that's really REALLY bad too
Here's the EU specific one though
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @duvel 22 Oct 2023
Thank you! Do you have a link to this graph?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 22 Oct 2023
The link shared in my post is where I got it from! Can’t take credit for making it lol
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96 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 22 Oct 2023
"They wanna know what you think, wanna know what you do, and they don't think you know, but I know that you do"
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142 sats \ 1 reply \ @gabybaby 22 Oct 2023
I find it amazing that KYC/AML proponents never seem to feel the need to show evidence that it works, and perhaps more so the fact that everyday plebs don't demand that evidence.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 22 Oct 2023
its for your safety ser
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 22 Oct 2023
The reason for these "regulations" are just marketing lies. The truth is they want control. I dont beleive that stopping criminals is even the goal. Thing is, the biggest criminals are the governments and their corporate overlords.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 22 Oct 2023
If they were interested in stopping criminality they’d resign first
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31 sats \ 0 replies \ @locomancell 23 Oct 2023
3 simple reasons:
  1. Control
  2. Control
  3. Control
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Jem 22 Oct 2023
Devils advocate: What are the second order effects of the criminal activity? Some of that confiscated money could have funded additional Hamas attacks, for example. Or get North Korea to a nuclear warhead faster etc etc. The proponents of AML probably don't consider this chart to be an indictment on their performance.
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @jamesmagoo 23 Oct 2023
crazy, the grift is real
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210 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 29 Oct 2023
Bravo :) applause for the great work
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @OneOneSeven 22 Oct 2023
We're living among psychopaths, and they're not the bitcoiners...
They don't deserve to be bitcoiners either, enemies of the human race
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22 sats \ 4 replies \ @fm 23 Oct 2023
you got that ALL wrong buddy
AML KYC is not aimed to stop criminal money,
Its all about knowing who is allowed to keep running dark money and who is not..
Like the Epstein client list.. No one got caugth
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1 sat \ 3 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 23 Oct 2023
yes ser. that is the implied point
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @fm 23 Oct 2023
for sure, i was being sarcastic.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 23 Oct 2023
apologies, text on internet, is hard sometimes ;(
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @fm 23 Oct 2023
no problem :)
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Louferlou 24 Oct 2023
I believe Saifedean frames it in these terms: Essentially, when you observe how much harsher the sanctions are for threatening the State compared to those for individuals threatening each other, you realize that their claim of wielding "legitimate violence" is actually a means to protect themselves from resistance to their organized theft, rather than to safeguard citizens.
This is particularly true in the predominantly socialist countries of Western Europe. Here, people occupying empty houses (at least in France) are often justified by law, because "they need a roof." Meanwhile, dangerous criminals, rapists, and murderers are released quickly and roam the streets freely. On the other hand, there are laws that prohibit and penalize drawing parallels between taxes and theft. Encouraging tax evasion, money laundering, and tax fraud are punished more severely than crimes committed by pedophiles and murderers etc....
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