Bitcoin, parallel societies/network states, and Islamic finance
3497 sats \ 13 comments \ @markzubov 14 Nov 2023 bitcoin
For the last few years, the idea of building parallel societies has been one of my main topics of interest. This idea has been around for decades (see Parallel Polis, The sovereign individual, etc); however, it has recently been popularized by Balaji Srinivasan in his Network State book https://thenetworkstate.com/ which I recommend everyone to read
I was just in El Salvador for the Adopting Bitcoin conference and gave a little talk on why we need parallel societies to keep the Bitcoin dream going and why I think the Muslim world might play an important role in it https://talks.adoptingbitcoin.org/adopting-bitcoin-2023/talk/AE7AR9/
(the talk is not out yet but you can find the slides if you click on the link)
Would love to get your feedback as well as learn about other Bitcoin-centric parallel societies/network state projects people have come across
write
preview
related posts
21 sats \ 7 replies \ @halalmoney 14 Nov 2023
One of the challenges you will face is the view that regulation of money falls within the remit of the state rather than what comes to the fore via market forces.
On the bright side, if there’s enough money to be made, eventually you will find an abundance of fatwas approving Bitcoin!
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @markzubov OP 15 Nov 2023
The game theory will play out as it always does. One country banning bitcoin or saying it’s haram = an opportunity for another country
reply
0 sats \ 5 replies \ @Bitman 15 Nov 2023
Islam and Judaism are said by some to be closer in some aspects than Judaism and Christianity. Largely, I believe, due to both being Abrahamic. But I'm pretty ignorant on all this...
I read that in Judaism there's the question as to whether miners, and even full nodes, can work on Shabat (Sabbath) - some rabbi's say they're like clockwork (so okay), others claim they're not allowed.
https://decrypt.co/6639/jewish-shabbat-passover-sabbath-bitcoin-rabbi-mining
By your nym I'm guessing that you consider Bitcoin as halal - is that universally accepted in Islam? If not, can you expand what the sticking points are?
Thanks.
reply
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @markzubov OP 15 Nov 2023
Highly recommend to read this article by Harris Irfan https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/gods-money-fix-world-harris-irfan
Also, Saif has spoken extensively on this topic; check out his podcasts with Harris, Safdar Alam, and a few others. Muslim Bitcoiner is also a great follow
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 15 Nov 2023
Great many thanks.
reply
21 sats \ 1 reply \ @halalmoney 15 Nov 2023
Yes, my understanding is that Bitcoin is halal. However, in my understanding as a layperson, the default ruling for “worldly” matters is one of permissibility; one needs powerful evidence to declare something as forbidden.
I like Bitcoin for multiple reasons but here are a few:
It aligns with a societal need for a reliable store of value without negative externalities, a fair unit of account, a mechanism to counter the concentration of power.
I don’t buy in to the Bitcoin presents an alternative to the current interest based monetary system but I appreciate its appeal when marketing Bitcoin to Muslims.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 15 Nov 2023
Ah yes, these are good points - many thanks.
I'd heard of the first one in the past but had forgotten this.
I had the idea of doing some research exploring each faith's view of Bitcoin to write a post in the future. Its always interesting to see Bitcoin through a different lens.
But, I feel it would be better for it to came from someone with something more to say than myself...
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 15 Nov 2023
Obviously, if your answer proves to be lengthy, consider creating a new post - more eyes will see it and more efficient for you.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @markzubov OP 16 Nov 2023
Hi all, the talk is out on youtube now if anyone wants to take a look
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @davidw 15 Nov 2023
Thanks for sharing the slides.
Got to admit I’m sceptical seeing you mention a possible 8% annualised return via your future finance product. Dare I ask?
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @markzubov OP 15 Nov 2023
That was just a hypothetical example assuming an inflation rate of around 8%. I’m personally really interested in stablecoins built on bitcoin that can track inflation/cost of energy over time
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 14 Nov 2023
thanks for sharing, excited to read
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @consd 15 Nov 2023 outlawed
stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.