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100 sats \ 13 replies \ @kepford 19 Jan \ parent \ on: Bitcoin and Missions spirituality
You are correct. In the US the state is largely friendly to churches. That is until the church confronts the state. We saw this during the lockdowns. Of course I'm speaking of the US gov being friendly to churches in relation to nations that are not. It is very likely that at some point in the future the US will seek to further restrict the activities of churches using their legal status and non-profit status as a tool. In my experience most Christians do not have their eyes open to this possibility. If they do, they think voting for someone like Trump is all they need to worry about. They don't understand what the state is.
There is nothing stopping churches from forming without any government recognition so I'm not sure what your larger point is. Care to elaborate? I think Jimmy is suggesting an alternative to church incorporation. A decentralized approach. This is already being done but most people do not know it is happening. Which is part of the strategy.
Yes, I was involved in a church where the state turned against it in part because it was not a "state approved" church though it was an LLC. The original foundation involves "free churches" which are automatically tax exempt, but then you face all sorts of complications like not having an EIN and how the banking works out if you take donations.
My larger point is that churches formed this way have little visibility and usually if they are formed this way, they don't have any visibility because something in the system broke. They have little desire to poke their heads back up into the world of "deep notice" but then the problem becomes how to receive donations and so forth and operate on a small level without such notice.
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Thanks. Sounds like a great use case for bitcoin as the donation medium doesn't it.
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Sure, but how do you reach donors, and then how do you convert the cash back to a usable form if you are facing persecution? The thing that's trying to be squelched in such a scenario IS the Church itself, and God by extension...
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I hear you but I also want to add that you can't squelch God. Throughout history the church has grown and thrived through persecution. The gap in what you are describing is a circular economy. Bitcoin is a great solution for the medium of exchange but that can't happen without people adopting it first.
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And if God tells you to send say, 30 BC to your brethren are you gonna do it? If not, then all the wrath around is all ready an indicator somebody tried to squelch Him.
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I was asking if God asked you to be personally financially accountable and to give say, 30 BT/BC to someone, would you do it? If you say no, then you are saying something that moves against what Messiah said to do in the Bible with regard to congregations. Hardly anyone will sell everything they have and put it all in the Church now and that is why there are problems with Churches.
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If this is the situation. If you can't receive donations in fiat and on fiat rails you need to be using bitcoin, not converting back and forth to fiat. Not saying the transition is easy but if the state is trying to stop your church you can't really use their systems. Barter, cash, and bitcoin seem like the best options to me. For sure avoiding banks. And it would need to be no KYC bitcoin.
I have heard about the cashless society and persecution my whole life from American Christians. Bitcoin is the first solution that has made sense to me. I think we are a long way from being forced to do this in the US but in many parts of the world bitcoin is helping people who need it.
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Not an option if you are renting buildings/houses paying utilities and the basic needs of living in most places.
The Church with which I was involved had to do just this in the US. Never underestimate people's want or desire to block out a narrative even IF they are supposed to love their brothers and sisters in Messiah. You don't hear about it because those people have a very difficult life afterwards, and each time they try to speak there are often further efforts to silence them.
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I feel like I'm missing some details here or something. I'm not saying use bitcoin and poof your problems go away.
It seems like in this situation the issue is that the church is working inside the state system and the state is using that system against this church. Maybe the solution is to not use the state system at all. What about a private club? I mean legally. Or not even any legal structure.
Also sounds like an attorney might be able to help. A good one.
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Sure, that's what they did. Church tried to go to a private club. The attack then came through social media and slander with physical threats and gangstalking which law enforcement would do nothing about.
Enforcement of actual laws would have helped. An attorney is all about filing cases. There are actual violations of people's rights, and in that instance one simply needs enforcement. It just wasn't there.
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